15:16:39 <_TPG> #startmeeting
15:16:39 <chwido> Meeting started Wed Apr  1 15:16:39 2015 UTC.  The chair is _TPG. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.openmandriva.org/om/en/MeetBot.
15:16:39 <chwido> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:16:43 <Xu_R> Starting sounds good
15:16:51 <_TPG> good chwido is back
15:17:02 <_TPG> i haven't seen him for quite a log time here
15:17:19 <itchka> He came back for a bit and then went again.
15:17:33 <_TPG> #agenda https://project.openmandriva.org/meetings/19
15:18:43 <itchka> I would like to propose a vote of thanks to _TPG, crisb  and bero for the huge effort they have put in to get us to the point we are at now.
15:19:01 <klebedeff> fully agreed!!
15:19:10 <avokhmin> Good day!
15:19:16 <klebedeff> hi:)
15:19:16 <jclv> +1 :)
15:19:18 <ben79> Yes indeed!
15:19:29 <bero> and let's not forget the others who helped get us there
15:19:34 <itchka> crisb fixed almost the entire build list of the last cooker mass build solo a massive amount of work.
15:19:37 <Xu_R> +1 to them
15:19:39 <klebedeff> great thank you guys for work and devotion
15:19:40 <_TPG> i'd like to thanks all who put time, blood and sweat to bring us the the place were we are all now
15:19:58 <_TPG> +1 all
15:20:03 <Xu_R> s
15:20:22 <crisb> thanks to all who helped!
15:20:24 <Xu_R> more like +1000 to you guys for getting all this stuff done.
15:21:48 <itchka> _TPG: For getting us going with systemd and Calamares and Bero for just about everything else.
15:22:05 <_TPG> __luca: ben79 thanks you guys for being active on bugzilla and doing QA stuff
15:23:05 <blackcrack> chwido: bark
15:23:06 * chwido barks at blackcrack and makes clear that he won't stop soon.
15:23:14 <blackcrack> *g*
15:23:21 <itchka> Now you've done it blacky
15:23:28 <klebedeff> chwido joins the chorus:)
15:23:28 <chwido> klebedeff: Error: "joins" is not a valid command.
15:23:46 <itchka> Over to you _TPG
15:24:34 <_TPG> topic 1. Acknowledgement of developers team efforts, naming people is ongoing
15:24:44 <itchka> :)
15:25:13 <blackcrack> chwido: lick klebedeff
15:25:13 <chwido> blackcrack: Error: "lick" is not a valid command.
15:25:32 <itchka> kate for tireless encouragement and mare duties.
15:25:46 <itchka> s/nare/morale
15:26:23 <_TPG> avokhmin: thanks for your effort on ABF and supporting OMA :)
15:26:27 <klebedeff> avokhmin: for initiative and energy
15:26:33 <avokhmin> :)
15:26:41 <_TPG> klebedeff: hehe i was faster :p
15:26:43 <klebedeff> blackcrack: for attention to details
15:26:47 <klebedeff> ;)))
15:26:49 <avokhmin> glad to help, thanks))
15:26:49 <jofazepa> hi
15:27:08 <_TPG> fedya_: thanks for arm stuff :_
15:27:11 <_TPG> :)
15:27:15 <klebedeff> jofazepa: for looking after us and helping a lot with community
15:27:22 <itchka> Raph and Jcl and all those at Infra who managed to swap our servers to alternate sites with the minimum of fuss.
15:27:29 <blackcrack> k'
15:27:48 <jofazepa> ?
15:27:51 <klebedeff> rugyada for taste and feminine touch:)
15:28:02 <itchka> Most definately
15:28:03 <_TPG> and artwork :D
15:28:15 <klebedeff> hehe, yes:)
15:29:00 <jofazepa> oh! is back pat time...
15:29:09 <klebedeff> yes jofazepa :)
15:29:19 <itchka> Grateful thanks go to Nicco for his efforts with the kernel.
15:29:27 <jofazepa> klebedeff for everything
15:29:37 <klebedeff> and to pcpa for not forgetting us even after big changes
15:29:55 <jofazepa> and users for using the shit
15:30:04 <klebedeff> jofazepa: !!;))
15:30:05 <itchka> :)
15:30:06 <blackcrack> oh holy, yes
15:30:10 <blackcrack> *g*
15:30:50 <klebedeff> and to our silent mascot, for that everybody smiles when his name comes up:))
15:31:18 <itchka> All the QA team
15:31:40 <_TPG> +1 QA team
15:31:45 <klebedeff> without each single part/member of the team it would not have functioned
15:31:50 <itchka> fedya for ARMing us.
15:32:02 <jofazepa> Microsoft for being an ass and Apple for being to expensive
15:32:02 <klebedeff> good word:)
15:32:09 <klebedeff> true:)
15:32:29 <jofazepa> aleluia
15:33:00 <blackcrack> amen *g*
15:33:33 <itchka> Sometimes it feels very lonely but when you think about it there are more of us than it sometimes seems.
15:34:33 <klebedeff> true
15:34:36 <jofazepa> and few of US than most wish for :) we are never satisfied
15:34:40 <itchka> and let's not forget OnlyHuman who gives chwido lots of love and tell us when he's strayed :)
15:35:02 <jofazepa> chwido needs a bitch
15:35:02 <chwido> jofazepa: Error: "needs" is not a valid command.
15:35:22 <jofazepa> always barking
15:36:00 <blackcrack> chwido: bark joeghi
15:36:00 * chwido barks at joeghi while permantly staring at his right leg.
15:36:10 <blackcrack> uh.. wrong ome *g*
15:36:36 <_TPG> moving to next topic ?
15:36:39 <itchka> and proyvind for looking after rpm
15:36:49 <itchka> yes
15:37:13 <bero> good list, but let's add Pulfer for all the work on KDE4
15:37:24 <_TPG> and Denis
15:37:39 <bero> and n3npq for looking after the other bits of rpm
15:37:40 <blackcrack> btw proyvind do he fix now the networkconfig and something around in drakconf.. (interrestingask)
15:38:13 <_TPG> indeed rpm is cruical part of omv
15:38:19 <itchka> Especially Denis who sympathetically reviews my mad ABF ideas
15:39:02 <_TPG> #topic Discussing suggested meeting rule: we do our best to reach the consensus and not to vote. In case of controversial issues the topic is taken to Loomio to relevant group.
15:39:17 <_TPG> for me this is sane
15:39:33 <Xu_R> I think that's a sensible idea - there's no need to really vote when there's a consensus
15:39:45 <klebedeff> +1
15:39:56 <_TPG> as sometimes on ML where are tons of messages it is hard to get a clear view on first look
15:40:12 <ben79> Yeah, if anything really controversial send it to Loomio
15:40:19 <jofazepa> consensus is a perceotion that is only achievable with participation
15:40:48 <itchka> Me too but we shouldn't exclude simple straw polls to see how many are unconvinved by the arguments for and against.
15:41:44 <ben79> itchka: Good point
15:41:57 <jclv> Isn't loomio suitable for that ?
15:42:00 <Xu_R> I guess, then, the question is - who participates in the consensus? What opinions matter?
15:42:28 <fedya_> i'm here
15:42:34 <klebedeff> hi:)
15:42:37 <itchka> Hi fedya_
15:42:44 <blackcrack> hi
15:42:47 <_TPG> hi
15:43:05 <klebedeff> that was the idea behind consensus suggestion: that everybody expresses himself today and everybody counts
15:43:11 <itchka> Xu_R: please expand
15:43:35 <klebedeff> in case agreement not reached, then we follow formalities and send the issue to releavant group in Loomio
15:43:58 <jofazepa> the facto is that the executionwr hás in general stronger argumenta in tech termos, moving things is way. it manipukstes better, in this case, te opiniões towards is consensus. political digeensios fo…
15:43:59 <jofazepa> …r example are not really taken in account. but that s another discussion
15:44:22 <Xu_R> itchka: jofazepa mentioned that consensus is only achievable with participation - then whose participation really matters for a consensus? Like a core grouping of devs who probably have knowledge on a topic?
15:45:06 <jofazepa> there are the tech dimension and the political dimtension in foss
15:45:09 <klebedeff> Xu_R: then it will be TC decision simply:)
15:45:37 <klebedeff> today we have common open discussions
15:45:55 <jofazepa> tech gors to deva and socialista, political goes for all, and in the last word to board
15:46:01 <klebedeff> if some topics will appear to be not suitable for that - they will be taken out of the meeting to Loomio or TC
15:46:54 <Xu_R> klebedeff: so consensus should be TC first, then off to Loomio?
15:47:00 <jofazepa> socialista = strategic (hate Android keyboard)
15:47:14 <klebedeff> consensus among all participants today
15:47:21 <itchka> Xu_R: I tend to agree though I do believe that the final release meeting which we had last time where the arguments were presented from all sides but everybodies opinion carryed equal weight seems to work well at that time.
15:47:25 <klebedeff> if no consensus - topic goes to Loomio group
15:48:16 <jofazepa> that is not real, because of bias
15:48:18 <klebedeff> the whole idea of having united meeting - is to have all in one place, to communicate tighter on actual questions
15:48:28 <klebedeff> all = people
15:48:49 <klebedeff> let's give it a try, I think it will go easier than you think
15:49:03 <jofazepa> going to a computer
15:49:55 <Xu_R> itchka: Release Meetings tend to need equal weight imho because when it's finally released everyone's a critic, so better to get criticism from everyone before release
15:50:11 <Xu_R> klebedeff: okay, sounds good.
15:50:20 <jofazepa> when we are talkignof decision making we need to tke in account the amount of information and participation each element has on the subjects
15:50:24 <_TPG> Xu_R: would that make a false view
15:50:27 <jofazepa> I believe this discussion is biased
15:50:49 <_TPG> if most of people will be critic, just to be critic
15:50:50 <klebedeff> let's try that on real topic:)
15:51:15 <Xu_R> _TPG: It has the chance to, but I think we handled it well enough last time
15:51:26 <_TPG> preety much was fine
15:51:36 <jclv> jofazepa: what is the bias?
15:51:53 <fedya_> jclv: not objective
15:52:12 <jclv> And ?
15:52:16 <jofazepa> I keep  my stance, there is a strategic/moral/political/ethical part of it and a techinicall part of the discussion in general, both are influence by opinions but those are influecen about informactiona nd knowledge. the first have a weight taht is not technicall, therefor, piolitical that need to be defined the second should be taken by people that have the tech information for it
15:52:21 <jofazepa> I could give lot's of examples here
15:52:59 <jofazepa> the bias is that decision making is not a trival thing like choosing pants or slippers
15:53:06 <klebedeff> jofazepa: yes, sure, we have both deciding organs
15:53:07 <jofazepa> regarding FOSS there is more to it
15:53:13 <jofazepa> for example
15:53:16 <jofazepa> a simple example
15:53:20 <jofazepa> choosing the default browser
15:53:52 <klebedeff> but now we have united meeting ot have all together, if someone has no expertise for the decision, he will not be trying to influence, we are sane here
15:54:00 <jofazepa> there are lots of dimensions I can participate for example in saying, what is the most used, what people prefer (from surveys), regarding licence of the product, history (who control the project), but technically for me is it works or don't
15:54:10 <jofazepa> but someone can say, technically A is better tha B
15:54:14 <klebedeff> let's try it on real question, not on sample one?:)
15:54:15 <jofazepa> for me this is crucial
15:54:36 <klebedeff> let'S try on real issue
15:54:40 <jofazepa> that we have a sane discussion because decisions help buldl the community
15:54:40 <itchka> Here's a real question.
15:54:41 <_TPG> klebedeff: yes we are all sane here :)
15:54:51 <Xu_R> he has a valid point, klebedeff - but I think at this point for major decisions it sounds like Loomio is a better idea.
15:54:53 <klebedeff> all arguments can be useful, and view from different POVS can be very valuable
15:55:02 <jofazepa> there are decions that bring epople, decisions that put people away
15:55:12 <jofazepa> because of the "package"
15:55:14 <Xu_R> smaller decisions consensus still sounds okay
15:55:15 <jofazepa> :=)
15:55:44 <jofazepa> Xu_R: yes. we cannot put eveything in the same bag
15:55:57 <Xu_R> Right, it's understood that decisions influence who uses our product and who doesn't, and who participates or not.
15:56:04 <klebedeff> guys, I suggest not to go too deep into theory now
15:56:18 <jofazepa> good root give good trees
15:56:25 <klebedeff> we are here to hear the views of each other
15:56:25 <Xu_R> But for smaller decisions we can take the risk with a consensus. So we're still back to klebedeff's suggestion of consensus for smaller decisions, loomio for bigger ones.
15:56:50 <jofazepa> sure. loomio has the advantage of documentation of discussion
15:56:54 <Xu_R> I think we all have similar opinions here
15:57:04 <klebedeff> if we indeed come to disagreement at some point - then we will decide how to solve, for now there is no problem:)
15:57:19 <jofazepa> I care about documentation when people what to understand hy something was done in a certain way
15:57:19 <Xu_R> ^ Right, so at this stage, we're okay
15:57:27 <_TPG> i have feeling that people involved in OMA will know what is small topic, and what is bigger one and needs some decision making help, like loomio
15:57:48 <klebedeff> yes!!_TPG
15:57:51 <jofazepa> also helps getting people closer
15:57:53 <klebedeff> thanks for wording this:)
15:58:24 <klebedeff> if we will need formalization - we will do it
15:58:32 <jofazepa> It's a leep of faith :-)
15:58:59 <klebedeff> jofazepa: have trust:)
15:59:03 <Xu_R> right. so let's try this.
15:59:18 <jofazepa> klebedeff: I know I don't :-)
15:59:22 <klebedeff> if this will not work we will not continue with it
15:59:27 <klebedeff> ;)-p
15:59:40 <jclv> Let's start with Kate's heuristic
15:59:43 <klebedeff> _TPG: please take over:)
15:59:57 <bero_mobile> and we do have irc logs for documenting...
16:00:26 * _TPG wonders how many "incidents" needs loomio will arise
16:00:36 <klebedeff> we will see:)
16:00:59 <jofazepa> bero_mobile: IRC logs are pain and you know it :-) but that s not my critical concerns. we may discuss that one day :-)
16:01:17 <_TPG> doubt this will be a huge amout, but clear view on decision makes strategy looks better
16:01:28 <klebedeff> chwido holds secretarial job well, it is easy to find stuff later:) jofazepa
16:01:28 <chwido> klebedeff: Error: "holds" is not a valid command.
16:01:56 <_TPG> maybe a loomio on this topic ?
16:02:01 <klebedeff> ahhaha
16:02:24 <_TPG> clearly we do not have consensus here, so loomio fits fine
16:02:33 <klebedeff> OMG
16:02:33 <_TPG> imo good example
16:03:16 <itchka> _TPG: Spot on
16:03:52 <jclv> Imo, this is not a kind of discussion we can have in loomio, because this is, first a discussion, not yet a decision to take
16:04:07 <_TPG> even if two people will not get consesus, and others involved in topic, may show votes for one or second idea, imo this is a good point
16:04:09 <klebedeff> guys, this was a suggestion for this meeting only, experimental
16:04:29 <klebedeff> if it appears to be controversial, let's just discuss open topics
16:05:07 <_TPG> klebedeff: maybe let's continue this on ML ?
16:05:22 <klebedeff> what exactly?
16:05:30 <_TPG> this topic
16:05:45 <klebedeff> it was a suggestion for decision making for one meeting only:)
16:05:50 <klebedeff> for today:)
16:05:55 <_TPG> oh
16:06:03 <klebedeff> obviously either I did not manage to explain it well
16:06:04 <_TPG> that makes difference
16:06:09 <klebedeff> or it is too controversial
16:06:24 <jofazepa> I'm the only black sheep here, let's move on
16:06:31 <blackcrack> lol
16:06:47 <_TPG> even if this is only for this meeting then i'm fine with this too
16:06:59 <klebedeff> we meet all together not that often, so everybody would have a say on all topics
16:07:03 <itchka> To be mature about this we should always be seeking to include as many people in the decision a\s possible and that is what you do if you seek consensus. Consensus implies negotiation, give and take, consideration of other point having equal importance and trying to accomodate them. It involves compromise.
16:07:22 <klebedeff> exactly that is the purpose
16:07:27 <klebedeff> to hear all POVs
16:07:36 <klebedeff> in common talk
16:08:03 <jofazepa> itchka: I agree, thats why it is easy to use a tool like loomio, to manage, and document in a clear way the discussion and the decision, in here it would be just "few" talking" and hard to mnage
16:09:03 <_TPG> are we going to next topic, asking because there are still few topics needed to talk about
16:09:15 <itchka> jofazepa: Unfortunately at least for me it seems to lack the continuity of a discussion.
16:09:19 <jofazepa> itchka: there are decisions that require thinking, reading, experimenting... etc...
16:09:32 <klebedeff> let's move on?:)
16:09:34 <Xu_R> How about this - let's save this discussion for Loomio, and we can hash everything out there
16:09:47 <jofazepa> itchka: ... that's a general problem...
16:09:52 <jofazepa> klebedeff: sure
16:10:17 <_TPG> Xu_R: +1
16:10:25 <itchka> +1
16:10:58 <Xu_R> Okay, let's move on. _TPG?
16:11:00 <_TPG> #topic Agreeing on new ways of attracting more developers/ stimulating the dev community so that current team gets support
16:11:14 <_TPG> klebedeff: it's your topic ?
16:11:30 <klebedeff> not only, it was suggested as well
16:11:41 <jofazepa> we are talking about FOSS, as we have no money we need to reach them for the heart
16:11:58 <klebedeff> jofazepa: what would be your idea on the topic?
16:12:26 <jofazepa> I'm not a dev, but I know what attracts me in this world and what makes me leave
16:12:49 <jofazepa> I would like to understand what a dev in genereal wants... what he seeks when he contributes to a project like this
16:13:00 <jofazepa> when I make a shallow analysis on how projects are born
16:13:09 <jofazepa> specially distribution of gnu/linux
16:13:32 <jofazepa> there are large differences
16:13:35 <klebedeff> good approach
16:13:48 <jofazepa> and the ecosystem is realy clutered in terms of offer
16:13:53 <nido> jofazepa: well, you making it easy to compile stuff with llvm is a good start.
16:13:59 <bero_mobile> IMO one important thing is to get a track record of good releases with state of art stuff (e.g. we won't attract KDE developers with another KDE4 based release)
16:14:46 <bero_mobile> Get ahead of the rest and people who want to work on (or try) something we're using might follow
16:14:57 <jofazepa> nido: that will bring some devs and put others apart, you know that. llvm is not consensual in FOSS, specially in community driven projects
16:15:09 <bero_mobile> Unfortunately, "might" not "will"
16:15:44 <klebedeff> what attracts developer in project?
16:15:47 <itchka> So we need to be heavily promoting 64 bit ARM.
16:15:48 <nido> jofazepa: The way you handle yourself on events like fosdem is very good in my opinion. The way the package submission system was described to me also sounded good. In comparison to fedora it was (still my opinioni) very low on red tape
16:15:50 <jofazepa> bero_mobile: I don't believe we have the resources to be on the "crest of the wave"
16:15:51 <klebedeff> will you say for yourself?
16:16:31 <jofazepa> bero_mobile: that approach could be sucessfull or lead our devs to exaustion
16:16:34 <klebedeff> "say for yourself" - I mean , developers here, please say what can attract you in project?
16:17:07 <nido> everything decision will attract people and push away others.
16:17:12 <klebedeff> _TPG: fedya_ bero_mobile n3npq nicco__ pcpa
16:17:35 <bero_mobile> for me, we're already doing things right - sane technology, community control, sane team
16:17:45 <_TPG> klebedeff: i may say, what distracts me will be easier - people form the project
16:18:00 <klebedeff> what do you mean?
16:18:38 <_TPG> klebedeff: i mean some people who are already involved in a project, in most cases founders are not so please and helpfull
16:18:44 <jofazepa> nido: sure. some are bigger than others :-)
16:18:58 <jofazepa> could you be more specific?
16:19:07 <_TPG> and yes bero_mobile is right here
16:19:20 <jofazepa> there are not much "founders"
16:19:32 <fedya_> promoting 64 bit ARM. -
16:19:36 <fedya_> is broken now
16:19:43 <fedya_> since 2014.10 gcc update
16:19:54 <fedya_> i tried to fix it yesterday
16:19:59 <fedya_> but lost connection to xgene board
16:20:09 <jofazepa> fedya: arm is a good atraction, lxqt also, imho
16:20:34 <bero_mobile> one big problem is that we just don't have the critical mass yet
16:20:54 <fedya_> jofazepa well armv7 working very well at least on raspberry pi2, wandboard, sabreboard, cubieboard1,2,3 etc
16:20:55 <nido> jofazepa: assuming you mean me; no i cannot be more specific about that statement. I agree there is a lot of controvercy around llvm which makes it obvious that this has a certain effect (positive or negative depending on the person). For other packages this effect may be significantly less, but it is still there.
16:21:12 <bero_mobile> "why would I want to develop something nobody uses?" is what I commonly hear from Debian and Fedora devs
16:21:22 <jofazepa> bero_mobile: that is a central problem since the beginning: we had troubled waters...
16:21:32 <klebedeff> well, that is not true about "not uses"
16:22:09 <nido> bero_mobile: in comparison to fedora, mandriva has an package submission process which is actaully understood by people manning the stands. Fedora has no such luxery
16:22:13 <klebedeff> do you people think that having presentations in local universities helps?
16:22:34 <klebedeff> if yes, do you have such universities in mind?
16:22:36 <_TPG> klebedeff: any kind of advertisement will help imo
16:22:43 <jofazepa> nido: not you, sorry, referring to _TPG
16:22:49 <nido> jofazepa: no problem
16:23:13 <klebedeff> call to all: do you have universities near you, where you would be ready to make presentation about OMA?
16:23:26 <nido> presentations may help, advertising in the same way. I guess it helps most to know where resources are
16:23:50 <_TPG> jofazepa: it's quite specific, that when you approach some group of interest you may hit the wall
16:24:03 <jofazepa> bero_mobile: I believe whe should follow our pat, we should not try to "compare" to them, they have resources, etc, we should focus on being small but beutifull
16:24:12 <crisb> is working on a Linux OS as exciting to people as it once was I wonder?
16:24:30 <_TPG> jofazepa: that's what distracts me, like why i should try again if no one want to collaborate
16:24:52 <jclv> I have a question pending for some times (in my mind): who, among the devs uses OMLx?
16:24:56 <klebedeff> _TPG:  please comment, not sure what you mean
16:25:43 <jofazepa> _TPG: the fact is that colaboration has lot's of dimensions, and the question is Why? if they are here, why they don't: lack of time, lack of interest, lack of knowledge, why?
16:25:45 <crisb> jclv: me (on main desktop) and my wife (on her netbook) :)
16:25:59 <jofazepa> _TPG: I just didn't unerstood the "founders" thing
16:26:02 <_TPG> jclv: if we assume that 50% of downloads are unique people that are still usimg omvlx then this will be more that 50k
16:26:17 <klebedeff> exactly
16:26:29 <_TPG> jofazepa: in most cases founder is a person who have the idea for a project
16:26:46 <_TPG> jofazepa: also may be the one who did most of the work
16:27:09 <klebedeff> can we please record a call with chwido: @ everybody, please think of local universities and contact Kate if you would be ready to make a presentation about OMA there
16:27:15 <_TPG> get back to topic
16:27:23 <jofazepa> I work at an university
16:27:31 <jclv> crisb: You are better than me: I didn't convince my wife yet ...
16:27:34 <jofazepa> I've talked to people here on the computer science department
16:27:37 <jofazepa> students, etc...
16:27:38 <klebedeff> _TPG: will you record it please?
16:27:47 <_TPG> i think it would be nice to get some research, maybe there are some local GSoC like campaings
16:27:52 <itchka> Me to jcl though I wouldn't class myself as a dev
16:27:55 <jofazepa> omlx is seen as a kind of lost of time
16:28:02 <_TPG> klebedeff: it's recording
16:28:10 <klebedeff> I mean to hash it
16:28:14 <_TPG> jofazepa: why ?
16:28:16 <klebedeff> to be distinguished
16:28:22 <jofazepa> like a old car with a new paiting, that came just after a really nice car (mageia)
16:28:34 <jofazepa> history is important
16:28:34 <_TPG> #action everybody, please think of local universities and contact Kate if you would be ready to make a presentation about OMA there
16:28:42 <klebedeff> well, the 50K users and blog writers think different:) jofazepa
16:29:07 <jofazepa> klebedeff: I know kate, I'm just talking about "casual" situation
16:29:08 <_TPG> jofazepa: lol what a delusion
16:29:12 <jofazepa> trying to explain
16:29:20 <crisb> jofazepa: yes i agree, people think that omv is the loser in the split
16:29:41 <klebedeff> when they try it they do like it, but there is old story to overcome, true
16:29:48 <klebedeff> there are few marketing ideas
16:29:51 <_TPG> people thinks we are old car with new painting, so let's show them what is under the hood
16:29:57 <klebedeff> they come from Francisco (Conectiva)
16:29:58 <itchka> While at FOSDEM I identified two "developer schools" One a school founded by a French ISP and anothe at a Dutch University. Both these schools installed linux on students computers. One insatlled on Apple hardware and the other on the students computer which almost always had a standard windows install that they wanted to keep. I got a specification from the Dutch university. It was clear what they required. The
16:29:59 <fedya_> jofazepa - last ancient piece of crap in oma is urpmi with perl-stack, all other stuff looks very pretty and modern
16:30:00 <itchka> students could be using OMALx and contributing back if we brought that one home. Raph contacted the other school but I do no know the outcome.
16:30:03 <blackcrack> how offen do you be in the forum.. and how overviewable it is.. also for support in the Forum.., crsisp, this also.. because manny it is very confused
16:30:28 <jofazepa> fedya_: when you know the house you know the house. but attractiveness is crucial
16:30:47 <jofazepa> and look good is not essential, because lot's of things look good. identty is crucial
16:30:53 <jofazepa> I'm sayint his fucking shit for to long
16:30:55 <klebedeff> itchka: on that we will follow up
16:31:26 <jofazepa> we are stuck with the memmories of failure, and Mageia got the cup for breaking with it... we are seen as the fucking old guy that tries to survive
16:31:39 <klebedeff> May I quote few ideas for marketing, please have your say what you think of this
16:31:46 <fedya_> jofazepa and btw omvx is ten times better and modern than mageia. At this point of development mageia is far far behind of us
16:31:48 <jofazepa> is true? no it is not. that is why we need to focus on building a fucking identity that describes us
16:32:04 <_TPG> jofazepa: have you any idea how to show people that under the hood OMV have a great kernel, clang, Linaro patches and other fancy and shiny objects ?
16:32:10 <jofazepa> one thing is perception, other is reality
16:32:26 <jofazepa> I will be onest
16:32:29 <jofazepa> honest
16:32:36 <crisb> yes, software is all about perception
16:32:47 <jofazepa> I believe that we need, for a start, a complete serviuce revamp
16:32:59 <jofazepa> dump some webservices, and focus on others
16:32:59 <crisb> and right now i think the perception of omv and the truth of omv are not aligned
16:33:11 <jofazepa> for a start
16:33:31 <fedya_> jofazepa - dump websites - looks like a good idea
16:33:36 <fedya_> we need a modern site
16:33:39 <jofazepa> then we should pick some 2 our 3 priojects we are working at and try to make our devs move "upstart"
16:33:47 <blackcrack> jofazepa: yep, this also.. and for the base, also an correctly forum als..
16:33:49 <fedya_> http://archlinuxarm.org/ look this
16:33:49 <jofazepa> how... i really don't know
16:33:54 <blackcrack> also
16:34:12 <jofazepa> information
16:34:28 <blackcrack> +1 and an really well
16:34:30 <klebedeff> may I have a say?:)
16:34:32 <jofazepa> is the core of building a stable structure, communicatin it well
16:34:33 <jofazepa> of course
16:34:51 <jofazepa> we don't need to look like some fancy under panties for new year eve
16:34:56 <blackcrack> becauser this forum, it's chease ..
16:34:56 <fedya_> i know. Need to force ARM everywhere. Go to raspberry pi forums and making topics with omv images etc
16:35:03 <jofazepa> sorry for my french but I'm not political correct
16:35:06 <blackcrack> what at moment runs
16:35:07 <klebedeff> recently few ideas came in, and they look well argumented, what is also important - Francisco is ready to do that
16:35:25 <jofazepa> I'm also Francisco...
16:35:27 <jofazepa> lol
16:35:31 <klebedeff> 1. Preambule "I think the most important users target is the teen people because: - IT generation: they have skills to explore new IT things - Popularity: most of them need to be different - Game's era: steam, minecraft and a lot of mobas running on linux - Social generation: if we provide a good experience, they will provide free publicity
16:35:54 <klebedeff> 2. Action
16:35:57 <klebedeff> "I pretend to explore this view to bring new users to OpenMandriva. I will do some medias to do that, like: - tutorials to install steam and moba games like league of legends and dota2 - tutorials to install, run and update minecraft and minetest - benchmark to compare with windows performance on games - tutorials to install virtualbox and run virtual machines - tutorial to customize the openmandriva interface
16:36:11 <klebedeff> - tutorial do make openmandriva a mediacenter (codecs, players etc) - tutorial to run android games like clash of clans and others - guide to create a programmer environment to study and work - guide to improve security and create backup - guide to create a network backup center  - and other windows stuffs like vpn, skype, google-chrome, java oracle etc
16:36:23 <_TPG> speaking of our main site... yes it may need a complete rework
16:36:28 <klebedeff> As we know, the guides and tutorials are indexed by google, bing and others. They will make publicity for ever to us (like Ubuntu forum do for users or Arch Wiki do for deep users). And if they work with last version of OpenMandriva, that will be a good marketing action.
16:36:32 <klebedeff> End of quote
16:36:37 <jofazepa> klebedeff: that is true, we need to work with the community closer, but we ned to understand that most of that "kids" are users, we need people with commitment, that people will dump Openmandrfiva if they don't like the wallpaper
16:36:51 <blackcrack> _TPG: +1
16:37:02 <jofazepa> we need commited people
16:37:35 <jofazepa> people need to indetify with our values
16:37:37 * n3npq suggests creating/maintaining an OMA VM in all the usual places (like AWS etc)
16:37:40 <crisb> plus those youngsters got boat loads of free time :)
16:38:00 <jofazepa> crisb: and boat loads of indecision
16:38:13 <blackcrack> _TPG: and an easy forum like PHPBB or other opensource who have an well subdivision and is clearly  ..
16:38:36 <jofazepa> _TPG: how do you see we going for "MIR"?
16:38:43 <klebedeff> OK, so we have two particular topics now: changing the website and tutorials
16:38:55 <_TPG> jofazepa: MIR from ubuntu ?
16:38:59 <klebedeff> and n3npq idea, 3 topics
16:39:23 <jofazepa> _TPG: yes, it's being developed and optimized for mobile, arm, etc...
16:39:39 <jofazepa> _TPG: no judgements here, ok :-)
16:39:48 <_TPG> jofazepa: we are going for wayland, as mir is not adopted at all by others than buntu
16:40:04 <itchka> n3npq: Good one I guess you mean "Try before you buy" There are lots of places where there is old Mandriva support that we have never updated. VirtualBox still carried Mandriva rpms but not openmandriva ones. The wine project is the same.
16:40:11 <Xu_R> Okay, okay -- let's try to focus on the three particular topics first that klebedeff pointed out
16:40:31 <Xu_R> This is getting a bit messy
16:40:42 <klebedeff> let's start with n3npq suggestion
16:40:48 <blackcrack> itchka: how one was fo to VBox and talk with they are ?
16:40:49 <jofazepa> _TPG: I believe with the entrance on the market it will overcome wayland...
16:40:58 <blackcrack> err: fo=go
16:41:15 <jofazepa> the discussion is still on the "attracting devs"
16:41:24 <Xu_R> I agree with n3npq's suggestion - I personally maintain the OMV 2014.1 Docker image, and I know some people have used it
16:41:46 <blackcrack> i can reminde me, where i was on an meeting, anyone was say, he whant speak with they are, for carring omf.rpm's
16:41:58 <blackcrack> emv
16:41:58 <Xu_R> And to have ready-made VMs available for use seems like an ideal way to get users on board.
16:42:03 <blackcrack> omv..damn
16:42:14 <_TPG> https://project.openmandriva.org/work_packages/17 <- Vbox idea is turung one year old...
16:42:18 <jofazepa> for the site, I believe we should have on for the general pulic and on, called "workshop" directed to devs, my 2 cents
16:42:31 <blackcrack> _TPG:  !! exatly..
16:42:36 <klebedeff> people, please express your views and particular suggestion on n3npq  idea?
16:43:00 <klebedeff> jofazepa: let's discuss topics one by one, otherwise ideas will be lost
16:43:16 <crisb> i think tutorials is a good idea, also youngsters
16:43:21 <jclv> Xu_R: we did it for 2013, but we have a terrible lack of manpower in infra
16:43:26 <jofazepa> klebedeff: the topic was attract devs :-)
16:43:40 <Xu_R> jclv: surely we can automate the VM building process, just like we do for ISOs?
16:43:40 <klebedeff> these are subtopics to it
16:43:48 <klebedeff> jofazepa:
16:43:51 <Xu_R> I think once we automate it, there's not much more to do.
16:44:11 <jofazepa> klebedeff: I say we should have two sites, one for devs one for general public, kust like most companies do
16:44:17 <klebedeff> Xu_R: action to record if there are no objections?
16:44:31 <klebedeff> sure, website will be next subtopic
16:44:38 <jofazepa> klebedeff: we need to improve our comunication and focus on tools that people use, and we can maintain before going for the races
16:44:52 <Xu_R> klebedeff: yes
16:44:56 <itchka> n3npq: Idea is good; A quick easy showcase easier tha iso's. May encourage testers too.
16:45:01 <jclv> Xu_R: one other question was the bandwith in our servers
16:45:21 <jofazepa> jclv: we need a server patron
16:45:35 <klebedeff> Xu_R: please let's hash it and we can move on I guess?
16:46:27 <Xu_R> klebedeff: yeah - "investigate having ready-made VMs for services and easier download, take into account bandwidth" should be a sufficient summarizer.
16:46:35 <Xu_R> next?
16:46:51 <klebedeff> #action  investigate having ready-made VMs for services and easier download, take into account bandwidth
16:46:57 <klebedeff> website
16:47:09 <klebedeff> there were few ideas and it looks like very actual topic
16:47:17 <jofazepa> _TPG: offtopic - btw I really believe we need a light cooker image directed to devs/testers easy accessible
16:47:22 <klebedeff> jclv: how you see the resources, is it doable?
16:47:42 <jclv> klebedeff: for VMs?
16:48:03 <klebedeff> for changing the website
16:49:12 <crisb> i think part of the reason virtualbox still produces mandriva rpms is because its in oracle hell
16:49:32 <crisb> there are no mageia rpms for example
16:49:38 <_TPG> jofazepa: we already have this, with lxqt 1,2 gb
16:50:14 <jofazepa> _TPG: sure, but the thing is the visibility: easy acessble :-)
16:50:20 <_TPG> are we agree to try to rework our main webiste ?
16:50:24 <itchka> crisb: That could be it.
16:50:42 <_TPG> jofazepa: reworking webiste would help alot with visibility of our products
16:50:47 <bero|2> _TPG: +1, needs to be reworked both for content and for scaling
16:51:03 <klebedeff> _TPG: that would be awesome, question to infra, will they cope, which help they may need?
16:51:03 <jofazepa> crisb: mandriva still exists... and we have the name of it, why why why buah buah buah
16:51:03 <_TPG> as now downloads are quite hidden and looks ugly
16:51:05 <bero|2> It looks pretty bad on a 2560x1440 display
16:51:22 <jclv> klebedeff: if aren't too much in a hurry, it's probably doable but infra team has to be renewed a bit
16:51:35 <jofazepa> _TPG: we cannot communicate efficiatly with all the fragmentation, and also I dislike the design, but that is not the essential
16:51:40 <klebedeff> let's fix here suggestions and first steps?
16:51:41 <blackcrack> jofazepa: we need an well installer who it is possible an rpm-releated install make do.. and selectable between cooker and normal distro
16:52:05 <klebedeff> let's collect particular ideas for the website
16:52:11 <_TPG> klebedeff: yes
16:52:12 <blackcrack> this is the easyst way, was in past by mandrake/mandrivatimes was at effectifst
16:52:16 <klebedeff> what exactly we want to see in a new one?
16:52:18 <jofazepa> blackcrack: we are moving to calamares, that will be not easy, but a network install of simple image will be a good move
16:52:48 <klebedeff> jofazepa: will you please word your particular ideas?
16:52:51 <jclv> Website: let's start a discussion in workshop
16:52:54 <blackcrack> for the first time jofazepa , yes, but we need modules who work with pm in calemares on long term
16:53:04 <blackcrack> pm= rpm
16:53:07 <_TPG> #topic basic requirements for new openmandriva.org look
16:53:11 <bero|2> I'd think it needs to be easier to navigate. Front page: just state what we're all about and point to downloads
16:54:12 <bero|2> First time visitors need to see right away that this is the OS for them and how they can get hold of it
16:54:24 <_TPG> new modern look with focus on our product, download, buy cd/dvd/usb or vbox image
16:54:29 <bero|2> and it needs to work well on anything from a mobile screen to a big QHD display
16:54:31 <Kvok_> It should be clear what OpenMandriva is.
16:54:44 <Xu_R> We need to emphasise what exactly we're building and what we stand for.
16:54:56 <jofazepa> I think we should have 2 faces, one is the general oma face, for everybody, other is the "innovation", like a workshop, info about dev, discussiona bout it, etc...
16:55:10 <bero|2> jofazepa: yes, that sounds good
16:55:16 <_TPG> jofazepa: +1, yes for advanced users
16:55:17 <jclv> bero|2: isn't that a bit conficting ?
16:55:29 <jclv> conflicting
16:55:45 <_TPG> http://openmandriva.org/en/home current home site looks ugly with a lot of empty places
16:55:57 <jofazepa> guys I'm sorry but I have to leave. have to pic my daughter.
16:56:19 <bero|2> jclv: why? CSS @media tags etc. can essentially provide different designs based on screen size etc.
16:56:22 <blackcrack> see u jofazepa :) byebye
16:56:28 <klebedeff> jofazepa: best to her:) will you please summarize your ideas about website and send them to workshop?
16:56:31 <bero|2> cu jofazepa
16:56:32 <itchka> Multiple login possibilities, Facebook, persona etc. also I believe we are supposed to say whether we use cookies or noy.
16:56:43 <jofazepa> bye! see you guys and gals
16:56:56 <itchka> bye
16:57:01 <jclv> Bye
16:57:25 <_TPG> for example take a look on http://www.linuxmint.com/ and imho the winner http://www.bodhilinux.com/
16:57:32 <Kvok_> How will the newcomers find out there is second face of the website?
16:58:16 <blackcrack> _TPG: look's well, if i think this in blue.. well :)
16:58:22 <_TPG> Kvok_: see http://www.bodhilinux.com/
16:59:05 <_TPG> on theirs wiki everything is well explained
16:59:07 <blackcrack> jepp, this be Homepages and not so.. Wordpress crap..
16:59:40 <blackcrack> _TPG: this is what i told crisb also.. gnh.. i am still angry.. :\
17:00:03 <blackcrack> the whole delete actions ..
17:00:20 <_TPG> my suggestion is to start rework our main site based on best expierience from others like http://www.bodhilinux.com/
17:00:51 <blackcrack> +1 good choice
17:00:56 <Kvok_> The blog on OM website is strange now, it looks like a separate website
17:01:00 <_TPG> https://manjaro.github.io/ looks cool also
17:01:25 <blackcrack> Kvok_: lol, yea, like an candy for kiddy's .. yupp
17:02:18 <_TPG> we do not need a separate blog... see https://manjaro.github.io/, they keep everything on one place
17:02:26 <itchka> If it's eye candy that works then that is what we should be doing.
17:03:14 <klebedeff> general direction seems to be clear
17:03:20 <_TPG> itchka: if you see a good looking girl, you assume that he is also smart, rich, and so on
17:03:29 <klebedeff> jclv: how we fix the next actions on this?
17:03:41 <blackcrack> it's an bit wrong eyecandy my frend, it's fit's easy not really together..
17:03:43 <Xu_R> Let's have a couple of people investigate this aspect and get back to us on what they think we should have and how to proceed forward
17:04:12 <_TPG> itchka: it is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
17:04:28 <klebedeff> Xu_R: who will be assignees for this?
17:04:58 <_TPG> Xu_R: i've gave some examples of good looking sites :)
17:05:00 <jclv> klebedeff: Rapha already started to do something new but he has not enough time at the moment
17:05:19 <Xu_R> I'd say _TPG, ashledombos, maybe another from workshop (so that we can match distro themes?)
17:05:31 <blackcrack> jclv: lol
17:05:31 <itchka> _TPG: Is this why Blondes are always attractive to most men:)
17:05:49 <Xu_R> _TPG did give examples :) and ashledombos was working on one before. another from workshop could help
17:06:30 <klebedeff> I guess we will not cope without Rugyada here:)
17:06:44 <ashledombos> hello
17:06:45 <jclv> Of course !
17:06:47 <klebedeff> fixing action?
17:06:49 <jclv> Hi
17:06:52 <klebedeff> hi:)
17:07:05 <_TPG> #action rework oma website based on best practives on other distributions main sites, like bodhilinux.com, manjaro.github.io and so on
17:07:28 <ashledombos> sorry for coming now, i had no internet
17:07:30 <klebedeff> assignees: _TPG ashledombos rugyada (subject to their consent:)
17:07:43 <ashledombos> what is the rework asked ?
17:07:45 <klebedeff> topic to be followed up
17:07:52 <_TPG> klebedeff: i'll put this on project :)
17:08:05 <klebedeff> ashledombos: I will send you the log, it is about website
17:08:07 <blackcrack> and before have he ask around if anybody maby whant make.. yes, clar.. but not enoug thime .. he should first bring his sheep's on the dry, befor he try to do something big where something need really an well time to bring an well result.. this about try to build up an webpage..
17:08:34 <klebedeff> then there was a topic of tutorials, to attract younger users and devs
17:08:46 <klebedeff> but that one is short I believe
17:08:50 <_TPG> next topic ?
17:08:52 <bero|2> good idea, but do we have the resources?
17:08:55 <Xu_R> klebedeff: I've found that tutorials generate a shit ton of SEO which can be very helpful in promoting
17:08:55 <klebedeff> are there any objections to that?
17:09:09 <Xu_R> But we have to find someone to write the tutorials.
17:09:16 <klebedeff> Xu_R: yes, that is one of Francisco's arguments
17:09:24 <klebedeff> Francisco does it already
17:09:29 <itchka> Xu_R: What's SEO?
17:09:32 <klebedeff> the only point - he may need help
17:09:37 <Xu_R> itchka: search engine optimization
17:09:48 <Xu_R> pushes openmandriva higher on search engines
17:09:54 <_TPG> klebedeff: if he needs a help, he may ask here
17:09:57 <itchka> Xu_R: Thanks
17:09:57 <klebedeff> so just one to note for now about tutorials and related - please help Francisco if he will ask for help:)
17:10:13 <Xu_R> Sounds good.
17:10:26 <klebedeff> great:)
17:10:32 <_TPG> klebedeff: anything left from that 3 small subtopics ?
17:10:41 <klebedeff> from these 3 no
17:11:04 <_TPG> #topic QA testing needs to be extended to the forums
17:11:06 <klebedeff> there is a question for everybody about FOSS fairs
17:11:16 <klebedeff> last one about promotion:)
17:11:23 <klebedeff> we researched with avokhmin
17:11:46 <klebedeff> appears that among interesting for us there is only FISL in Brazil this year left
17:11:52 <klebedeff> are we mistaken?
17:12:02 <klebedeff> what else is happening interesting for us? do you know?
17:12:31 <_TPG> nothing interesing in europe ?
17:12:36 <klebedeff> looks like no
17:12:37 <avokhmin> http://lanyrd.com/dashboard/ try to find
17:12:46 <klebedeff> either very small, or not our profile
17:12:59 <avokhmin> maybe we missed something
17:13:07 <klebedeff> so we thought may be we missed something
17:13:10 <klebedeff> :))
17:13:15 <itchka> What about LUGS
17:13:43 <klebedeff> where is that?
17:13:53 <klebedeff> not googleable instantly
17:14:28 <itchka> Linux User Groups we have them all over the UK
17:14:29 <Xu_R> linux users groups?
17:14:33 <blackcrack> Linux User .. eh ja
17:14:39 <Xu_R> MAybe
17:15:11 <klebedeff> well, that would work more for presentations by local members of OMA, right?
17:15:15 <blackcrack> but the most be hard growin in differend distriebutions.. heavy to become some peoples..
17:15:21 <klebedeff> these are not fairs as such
17:15:23 <klebedeff> ?
17:15:32 <itchka> They are groupd of linux users that meet together maybe once a month for a talk or a test install. That kind of thing
17:15:48 <blackcrack> also
17:15:53 <klebedeff> then it would work if our members would go there and promote OMA
17:16:24 <Xu_R> I think LUGS would be better if we went there to solicit feedback on what we currently have
17:16:47 <Xu_R> Not sure promoting would work so well in a LUG, but I haven't been to many, so feel free to correct me there
17:16:57 <klebedeff> #action @everybody, please think of your local Linux groups and communities, may be you can go there and demo OMA? Please address Kate if you see such a chance
17:17:25 <itchka> Buit with some cheap memory sticks we could mail them a special addition distro maybe personalised in some way.  They use it as the subject of that months meeting.
17:17:50 <klebedeff> good idea
17:18:25 <klebedeff> #action if you know contacts of your local groups, please share that with Kate, in order to send them personalized USBs with OMA to test
17:19:16 <klebedeff> #action if you know of FOSS fairs, which fit our interests (this year) except for FISL, please let Kate know
17:19:27 <klebedeff> with that topics from my side finished:)
17:19:51 <jclv> About what Raph already did: www2.openmandriva.org blog2.openmandriva.org
17:19:58 <itchka> Before I forget the idea if we could script the demo that Nicco did at Montpelier last year that would seriously inpress.
17:20:05 <blackcrack> Kate, maby search in diffrent big towns lugs and sent  dem easy cheaps usb-stick, with manny greetings from Open Mandria it's possible. easy as "we are relaunch an Mandriva in Community, no more Factory" something maby.. be invite to come on our Webside..
17:20:27 <blackcrack> usb-sticks an pack of it.. 10-15
17:21:11 <klebedeff> blackcrack: yes, and if you know particular addresses, please send me
17:21:12 <blackcrack> but only if the Homepage finish and viewable *s*
17:21:26 <klebedeff> itchka: let's record the idea
17:21:28 <blackcrack> lug adresses on the web
17:21:30 <klebedeff> not to lose it
17:21:57 <klebedeff> _TPG: I am done:)
17:22:05 <_TPG> #topic QA testing needs to be extended to the forums
17:22:09 <_TPG> new topic
17:22:45 <itchka> OK this is my item
17:22:59 * Xu_R ~> Xu|Mobile
17:23:52 * n3npq suggests regularly scheduled QA sprints focussed on specific sub-systems with irc interaction instead of forums
17:24:48 <itchka> I think we need the QA team to be more present on the forums. I am looking back a little here but some of you will rememebr the surge of popularity that Mandriva had when Adam Williamson was directly involved in helping users to fix their problems.
17:25:54 <itchka> n3npq: Thank you an excellent idea.
17:25:54 <blackcrack> therewith we need an more overview able forum.. clear divided like it was on Mandrake !
17:26:24 <ben79> I try from time to time but one big problem is no e-mail notifiation or replies to threads I post to
17:26:44 <ben79> or replies=of replies
17:26:47 <Xu|Mobile> n3npq: sounds like a good idea
17:27:03 <itchka> I am not so familiar with forum software to judge it's affect in this situation so I would have to accept others expeience with this.
17:27:11 <ben79> n3npq: Yes, good idea
17:27:54 <Kvok_> so when a user adds new information about a problem, we should add it to bugzilla? The forum will be used for more „friendly” communication?
17:28:37 <Xu|Mobile> That's one way to do it
17:28:55 <Xu|Mobile> My major gripe with forum software is that it's not as east t
17:28:59 <ben79> But I agree with itchka that QA should be more involved in forums.
17:29:07 <Xu|Mobile> *easy to keep track of as email
17:29:14 <itchka> There needs to be some feedback btween the community and the developers. Have a specific forum for QA issues would allow us to formalise the interaction between users and QA.
17:29:30 <_TPG> so each doubt or bug should be recorded on bugzilla, right ?
17:29:31 <blackcrack> itchka: PHPBB or something : simplemachines.org forum software
17:29:35 <denis_silakov> many users consider bugzilla to be "too serious" tool for advanced people. I can share ROSA experience a little - our QA do actively participate in forum and call developers in case of need
17:29:36 <blackcrack> ehh http://forum.wxbasic.de/
17:29:57 <blackcrack> something.. and the moderation it's really easy to learn :)
17:30:15 <denis_silakov> ... and in rosa it is usually  aQA guy who file a bug in bugzilla on the basis of forum discussion
17:30:25 <blackcrack> this in englich and subforums
17:31:29 <blackcrack> http://www.simplemachines.org/
17:31:42 <itchka> _TPG: The filing of bugs is an important issue and we would have to be disciplined about this but it is likely that more and better information may be got through forum interaction and it may lead to less spurious bugs and more real information.
17:32:27 <denis_silakov> that's right. But the thing is that many users can't provide all necessary information, they need some help
17:32:27 <itchka> denis_silakov: Thank you denis
17:34:09 <tapwag> We do have a QA-team but are there people whose main job is "bug triaging"?
17:34:10 <bero|2> true -- it does make sense for people to go over forum reports and extract bug reports...
17:34:11 <blackcrack> an suggestion/idea, an Page with an iframe who have top diffrent links and able to include the headpage.. in theme like tpg told.. and today it's possible with html5 and iframe and php to play around with thoms cool webshit :) *g*
17:34:29 <nido> denis_silakov: Not sure if i am supposed to interfere here; but in my opinion it is not a bad idea to introduce people to the 'serious' bugfixing tools. Whilst a forum works well in discussing roughly the state of things; bugfixing may need different information. I cannot make a proper bug report from someones description of a problem unless i ask them manually what the values of the fields must be (os version, cpu architecture, etc. This m
17:34:39 <itchka> I feel that is important that we promote this to users and actually have a "launch" to show we mean business. Now that we have a few more people in our QA team we are not quite so short on resources as we were. I think we could support this.
17:35:33 <blackcrack> itchka: +1 and easy abe to include the way to the bughunting and have an open view to QA part, to be able to help..
17:36:01 <tapwag> Is there a wiki page on the bug reporting process?
17:36:06 <blackcrack> and make able to have an easy way to the bughuntingway..
17:36:09 <denis_silakov> nido: surely, if people are not opposed advanced tools and ready to spend some time studying them, this will realyl help
17:36:34 <itchka> nido: Perhaps the solution to this is that wehen we have guided the user through the process the price of our help is for them to properly file the bug; education and fixups botha t the same time.
17:36:45 <Xu_R> I think at this stage, we need _people_ for QA
17:36:57 <ben79> tapwag: To my knowledge no one is assigned to bug triage
17:37:36 <_TPG> tapwag: iirc under development by Xu_R
17:37:52 <tapwag> There has been such a team in Mandriva Linux times but it has pretty much been short of people
17:38:22 <Xu_R> A mechanism to have specific QA'ers test specific packages is under development, yes
17:38:37 <tapwag> _TPG, Will be happy to translate this to German - Xu_R Please let me know when the page is finished
17:39:46 <nido> itchka: Though I am not related, I do not see a problem with 'i have this problem, how should i post a bug' kinda posts. There is a bug reporting page on the wiki for who asked. https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/How_to_report_a_bug
17:42:05 <blackcrack> nido: this stickinf on an well clear/concise forum on top and the peoples go by self there on ;)
17:42:06 <ben79> Perhaps the https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/How_to_report_a_bug should be added to bugzilla as well?
17:42:41 <ben79> And made a sticky on Forum?
17:42:46 <blackcrack> ben79: on the english part.. *g*
17:43:05 <blackcrack> ben79: +1 jepp
17:43:36 <blackcrack> ben79: if we have an good forumsoftware ..where can see the peoples werer it is what ..
17:43:46 <blackcrack> at example on reactos ..
17:44:07 <ben79> blackcrack: Well, that was my lazily copying and pasting. Should be language agnostic of course.
17:44:44 <blackcrack> jo, if the poples have klickering before *g*
17:45:46 <itchka> nido: Indeed there is :) We even have a tool for gathering information but the point is that people are social and users always seem to go to the forums first. They like to say I've got that bug too, what's your fix. It's a kind of entertainment.
17:45:58 <_TPG> do we have actions for that topic ?
17:46:28 <itchka> Yes
17:46:34 <blackcrack> itchka: and therefor.. an well forumsoftware ..
17:46:42 <_TPG> i see this regularly scheduled QA sprints focussed on specific sub-systems with irc interaction
17:47:18 <nido> The wiki entry would need some fixing up. Some of the entries don't really give any information on what to do unless you already knwo it. e.g. the " My OpenMandriva Lx does not want to start program " says it must run in console, try gdb or valgrind.   Doesn't the omv-bugreporter tool do the journalctl bit the wiki asks to do manually?
17:47:39 <blackcrack> _TPG: and the well, it's give Web-IRC-Software were can be linking in and .. make as popup for fast help.. or something..
17:48:09 <nido> itchka: I think a forum is a good place for the 'what is your workaround' kinda posts; and these do not really fit in the bugtracker itself
17:48:33 <_TPG> nido: yes omv-bur-report collects all the logs and helpful data from system
17:49:03 <ben79> TPG: QA sprints are great idea. Sort of in an ad-hoc way what happened with UEFI support.
17:49:04 <itchka> I think we need to make a plan of action on project. This service must be properly announced and services and will require a number of intermediate decisions. Such as marketing effort, web site work and team organisation. I will draw up a prokject plan for further discussion.
17:49:34 <Xu_R> In the meantime, I am all for scheduled QA sprints with IRC interaction
17:51:06 <_TPG> #action regularly scheduled QA sprints focussed on specific sub-systems with irc interaction
17:51:07 <itchka> Xu_R: we could certainly use this to build a support group and pool diagnostic skills.
17:51:13 <_TPG> moving to next topic ?
17:51:23 <Xu_R> Yes
17:51:32 <tapwag> Just did a partial initial translation of the bug reporting in German:
17:51:41 <tapwag> https://wiki.openmandriva.org/de/Bugs_melden
17:51:42 <blackcrack> Xu_R: something in this direction :
17:51:48 <blackcrack> gr..
17:51:50 <Xu_R> If it's maybe okay with klebedeff too, we could promote these QA sprints to get more people into helping
17:51:59 <itchka> tapwag: Wow that was quick!
17:52:01 <klebedeff> all for it
17:52:11 <klebedeff> just tell me when it is a "Go":)
17:52:17 <tapwag> itchka, I can do about 200 chars per minute :-)
17:52:25 <blackcrack> Xu_R: http://frug.github.io/AJAX-Chat/
17:52:32 <blackcrack> something
17:52:34 <nido> I would also like to suggest to condense the amount of mandriva related accounts when possible. e.g. get bugzilla and the forum to use the same credentials
17:52:40 <ben79> tapwag: I'm up to 20-25...
17:52:53 <tapwag> ben79, Characters or words?
17:52:55 <klebedeff> nido: agreed!!:)
17:53:08 <Xu_R> blackcrack: I'll take a look at it
17:53:19 <blackcrack> k'
17:54:19 <blackcrack> nicco__: :))))
17:54:57 <blackcrack> nido: :))))) this, is, the best way ..
17:55:00 <_TPG> nido: yes this is one of our oldest goals, to get SSO
17:56:18 <nido> _TPG: are there plans visible/historical bumps that should be taken into account?
17:56:47 <_TPG> nido: yes on project.openmandriva.org, all ides were registered
17:58:09 <_TPG> #topic Upcoming elections and general assembly
17:58:27 <klebedeff> ashledombos:
18:00:09 <ashledombos> yes
18:00:39 <ashledombos> well we have to renew the council at least
18:01:23 <klebedeff> last year we had general assembly  online
18:01:25 <ashledombos> for now it has been agreed to reduce the number of council members
18:01:31 <ashledombos> to 9
18:01:42 <klebedeff> this year we can repeat practice and make loomios for actual topics
18:02:06 <klebedeff> 'action @everybody, please send your suggestions for agenda for all members Loomio meetings to council ML
18:02:14 <klebedeff> #action
18:02:27 <ashledombos> So we need to make a call for people who would like to be part of council
18:02:41 <klebedeff> for council elections we plan anonymous online voting, all members taking part and all can be elected
18:02:53 <fedya_> i want to be
18:03:06 <klebedeff> a call for candidacies for council and bureau will be placed
18:03:21 <ashledombos> knowing that council is related to the management of the association by itself, not the projects it supports (in fact the only project for now being cooker/omlx)
18:03:24 <klebedeff> please say if you want to be in council or bureau or if you suggest other member
18:04:24 <ashledombos> well bureau is elected by the council, it consists of at least one president, which is the legal representative toward adminstration
18:04:29 <klebedeff> from my side this announcement to the topic - was it:)
18:04:49 <ashledombos> and not mandatory, but usefull a treasurer and secretary
18:04:49 <klebedeff> all details will be shared in email to everybody, right ashledombos ?
18:04:57 <ashledombos> sure
18:05:06 <klebedeff> fedya_: your wish is noted:)
18:05:18 <avokhmin> klebedeff: I can :)
18:05:41 <klebedeff> noted:)
18:05:55 <blackcrack> per Oyvin ?
18:05:59 <ashledombos> does someone need more explanation about council role inside association?
18:06:17 <ashledombos> sorry
18:06:22 <ashledombos> i mean the whole project even
18:07:42 <tapwag> I have been thinking about having the translation members represented inside Council but I am not sure if I want to apply for that role
18:07:43 <klebedeff> we probably can remind that to everybody in a dedicated infor email
18:08:03 <klebedeff> tapwag: you still have some time to contemplate:)
18:08:41 <tapwag> klebedeff, Will think about it
18:08:53 <ashledombos> yes, but it was mainly if someone wanted to ask now, sometimes it's easier to ask directly, and add ideas for filling email
18:09:07 <klebedeff> sure:)
18:09:18 <klebedeff> just saying that there will info anyway
18:09:47 <klebedeff> anybody has something to add or comment?
18:10:05 <klebedeff> if no, topic over
18:10:17 <klebedeff> _TPG:
18:11:00 <_TPG> #topic Adding the pending translations to the website
18:11:11 <klebedeff> tapwag:
18:11:30 <fedya_> btw why i want to be in council. I have (one and only) employer who use cooker openmandriva in own project and they pay me and they bought 10 ARM boards
18:11:54 <tapwag> Well, there are quite a few completed translations on transifex.com that I do not know how to integrate them on the website
18:12:27 <blackcrack> tabwag, well, you understand both wolds well..
18:12:40 <fedya_> it helps to us be a bit closer to a real bussiness
18:13:04 <tapwag> At the moment there are 15 translations on transifex.com
18:13:15 <ben79> +-
18:13:30 <tapwag> Hungarian and Portuguese (Brazil) have both been proofread
18:13:59 <itchka> tapwag: This is good work
18:14:07 <klebedeff> fedya_: there are all reasons for you to be in council:) quite many of them:)
18:14:22 <tapwag> There is also Czech, French, German, Italian, Romanian and Russian which are complete but not proofread
18:14:41 <klebedeff> ashledombos:  looks like you are the one from infra now here
18:15:07 <tapwag> So there is quite a few and it would give a tremendous boost to the internationalization of the site
18:15:40 <ashledombos> in fact, it was in preparation of a new website version based on rugyada artwork
18:15:44 <ashledombos> ie
18:15:49 <ashledombos> www2.openmandriva.org
18:15:57 <ashledombos> blog2.openmandriva.org
18:16:11 <tapwag> Spanish is also complete, Turkish as well, Croatian is missing 3 strings and Polish is missing 5 strings
18:16:42 <tapwag> https://www.transifex.com/organization/openmandriva/dashboard/openmandriva-website
18:16:46 <ashledombos> but the main problem we faced is moving data from old to new blog
18:17:18 <ashledombos> because the translation system in old blog is very... special, and automation doesn't really works
18:17:24 <ashledombos> so we have to import all by hand
18:17:31 <klebedeff> do we really need old blog?
18:17:37 <klebedeff> old like how old?
18:17:49 <ashledombos> well, not old, but current
18:18:18 <ashledombos> i mean, we worked on http://blog2.openmandriva.org
18:18:36 <ashledombos> it's easily themable, in fact, we can pick up the look of manjaro
18:18:39 <Kvok> about the proofread, can I do it myself for the Czech translation? As I am alone for it
18:18:56 <ashledombos> but problem is blog posts import
18:19:53 <tapwag> Kvok, Let me see if I can add you as a proofreader
18:20:43 <ashledombos> we could also just migrate to blog2, write new articles in it and give a link to current blog (which would be archived) until all is imported
18:20:44 <itchka> ashledombus: What is exactly the problem can you not extract the data?
18:21:02 <ashledombos> itchka: it's quite technical, but i can explian in private
18:21:12 <ashledombos> so that we don't pollute too much here with technical stuff
18:21:19 <itchka> fine
18:21:35 <klebedeff> can we record action or plan here?
18:21:55 <ashledombos> well, i've just watched the log before, of which i missed
18:21:57 <tapwag> Well, I do want this stuff to be picked up
18:22:18 <tapwag> the translations I mean. It would surely make us look more international
18:22:52 <itchka> Seems to me it would be best to start a new blog then the internationalisation work can be done promptly
18:23:22 <ashledombos> i18n is really quick to do, what is long is importing old data
18:23:41 <tapwag> One thing that I noticed that in the current blog this "qTranslate" plugin is no longer being offered for the latest version of WordPress
18:24:14 <ashledombos> unless someone with really good sql language could help to make automation
18:24:26 <ashledombos> good slq language knowledge
18:25:36 <OnlyHuman> chwido bark whereami
18:25:36 * chwido barks at whereami while permantly staring at his right leg.
18:25:46 <ashledombos> yes, and the problem is inded with qTranslate
18:26:27 <ashledombos> all translation is in the same page, separated by tags, while in what we worked it's one language per article
18:26:56 <tapwag> Kvok, I just checked about adding you as a reviewer but I can't add you. It says that you are already on the team. Anyone from a Czech community interested in doing this role?
18:27:29 <ashledombos> but if it's ok to migrate to the next website formula even with lacking old articles (that would come later)
18:27:33 <ashledombos> we can focus on it
18:27:40 <ashledombos> rather than importation
18:27:50 <klebedeff> sounds ok
18:28:10 <tapwag> There is also quite a lot of interesting stuff on the old Mandriva wiki
18:28:42 <tapwag> Kvok, I just checked about adding you as a reviewer but I can't add you. It says that you are already on the team. Anyone from a Czech community interested in doing this role?
18:28:54 <klebedeff> what would be the suggested plan of actions on the topic?
18:29:33 <ashledombos> well, first replace www.openmandriva.org by www2.openmandriva.org
18:29:44 <klebedeff> #action
18:29:46 <ashledombos> polish the blog2
18:30:14 <ashledombos> replace blog by blog2, make a link to current blog as archive for not yet imported articles
18:30:19 <klebedeff> ashledombos: tapwag can you please make a project on that?
18:30:26 <Kvok> tapwag: Well I can ask the one who set the Czech translation up for the first whether he or someone else could review it
18:30:40 <ashledombos> and start writing new blog posts in new engine
18:30:50 <tapwag> klebedeff, On project.openmandriva,org is it?
18:31:04 <klebedeff> tapwag: can't we give full rights to Kvok ?
18:31:10 <klebedeff> right tapwag
18:31:21 <ashledombos> btw many people applied to be part of infra, but very few really are working in it
18:31:37 <ashledombos> so if any is skilled, interested, and does have time for it
18:31:52 <ashledombos> please make us know at infra@ml.openmandriva.org
18:32:14 <itchka> ashledombus: Maybe ask people to do specific tasks?
18:32:14 <_TPG> ashledombos: maybe some announcement on ml and forums ?
18:32:29 <ashledombos> yes
18:32:37 <klebedeff> I will do
18:32:37 <ashledombos> we will do this
18:32:50 <klebedeff> ashledombos:  if you send me some sample tasks that would help
18:32:57 <ashledombos> sure
18:32:59 <ashledombos> i'll do
18:33:21 <_TPG> moving to next topic ?
18:33:22 <klebedeff> #action ashledombos tapwag make a project for translation import
18:33:23 <tapwag> I just gave Kvok Coordinator status so
18:33:47 <tapwag> he can also assign roles for Czech. Congratulations on the promotion
18:33:52 <klebedeff> great:)
18:34:02 <klebedeff> topic done?
18:34:26 <ashledombos> yes
18:34:48 <Kvok_> tapwag: thanks
18:35:08 <klebedeff> _TPG: agenda is finished, do we have any other topics?
18:35:27 <_TPG> klebedeff: i'd like to talk about alpha release status
18:35:33 <klebedeff> sure
18:35:40 <bero|2> yes, important topic
18:35:46 <_TPG> #topic 2015.0 alpha release status
18:36:04 <_TPG> as you may know 2015.0 alpha is behind schedule
18:36:10 <itchka> Very important topic.
18:36:53 <_TPG> in my opinion LXQt is not sowehat stable
18:37:05 <itchka> I don't see this as bad there was a huge amount of work to do and probably still is.
18:37:32 <ashledombos> is not or is now?
18:37:35 <bero|2> ahreed, I think the LXQt version is ready to ship as alpha, unfortunately Plasma 5 is a bit of a different situation
18:38:05 <_TPG> one bug that is visible on first look is this one https://issues.openmandriva.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1128
18:38:35 <_TPG> so users who will try to install OMV from icon on desktop may be disapointed, as calamares will not start
18:38:54 <_TPG> this is because pcmanfm-qt does not handle Exec=foo bar in desktop file
18:39:10 <_TPG> this got pushed on upstream, but no activity on that bug
18:39:38 <_TPG> solution is to remove omv install icon from desktop, and keep it only in lxqt menu
18:39:49 <_TPG> ashledombos: is now
18:40:06 <ashledombos> ok
18:40:38 <_TPG> calamares our new installer is working fine, few bugs needs to be fixed, but for now it fits alpha
18:41:13 <_TPG> good new is that calamares community are cool guys, and they do not reject bugreports because we are not debian or fedora
18:41:49 <_TPG> second calamares got into GSoC, so we should push now as much bugs/reature request as it is possible
18:42:08 <_TPG> knowing they will be fixed during GSoC
18:43:06 <_TPG> i think we should focus on alpha release date
18:43:42 <itchka> _TPG: I know you disagree with me but seeing Ben mail this morning reinforced my view that we should ship both installers.
18:44:08 <_TPG> one thing is important as some of our sources got pushed to /software in ABF, but proyvind did not give write access
18:44:42 <_TPG> so to push new artwork either someone needs to revert his changes or make him give write access
18:45:39 <_TPG> itchka: yes you are right i disagree, but last word is for community and bero, we may start loomion on this when no consensus will be achieved
18:46:23 <_TPG> bero|2: do you have write access here https://abf.io/software/desktop-common-data ?
18:46:33 <itchka> _TPG: Have you been able to contact provind?
18:46:52 <_TPG> itchka: tried few times on irc and e-mail, no response
18:46:54 <tapwag> Some issues have arisen concerning translations on transifex. Are the following files still be translated: resource network-tools_drakx-net.pot DrakX.pot and mdkonline_mdkonline.pot - the latter one still has some Powerpack strings in it
18:47:27 <bero|2> Let me check if I do...
18:48:21 <bero|2> FWIW I'm also against shipping 2 installers unless they really serve a different purpose (e.g. one live installer, one traditional installer with more package choice -- and even if they do, they need to be unified)
18:48:54 <ashledombos> you talk about the drakx installer?
18:49:27 <_TPG> ashledombos: calamares and draklive-install
18:50:02 <ashledombos> ok, i thought you talked about proyvind reworked classical installer
18:50:54 <_TPG> ashledombos: there were no announcement from him that his installer works or something like that
18:52:17 <_TPG> bero|2: any news ?
18:52:43 <bero|2> _TPG: Currently fixing some stuff in there so I have a purposeful commit ;)
18:53:04 <_TPG> second there is an issue with VLC, as it does not want to compile on ABF
18:53:18 <_TPG> either it segfaults or stuck forever on abf
18:55:27 <itchka> _TPG: Have you tried the single instance of make trick?
18:55:53 <bero|2> _TPG: Just pushed a fix -- looks like I have write access
18:56:23 <_TPG> itchka: yes, i even tried --output-sync=target and one time i managed to build x86_64
18:56:34 <bero|2> The weird thing is that it builds fine locally all the time
18:56:46 <_TPG> bero|2: good then you could update artwork form rugyada
18:58:08 <_TPG> bero|2: or if it possible then give me write acces to /software, but i guess POK will be not happy because of that
18:58:29 <bero|2> let me see if I have sufficient permissions to give you write access...
18:58:46 <bero|2> I don't have the artwork (it's probably somewhere in my email, but I'm a bit behind in catching up with that)
18:59:19 <itchka> _TPG: Hmm not sure where to go if that doesn't work. Can we split out some modules and build them separately?
18:59:44 <_TPG> itchka: dunno if it is possible
18:59:51 <itchka> _TPG: Could be running out of memory
19:00:29 <bero|2> looks like I can't give anyone access.
19:00:34 <bero|2> I seem to have only read+write
19:03:13 <_TPG> itchka: i've send message on ML about this issue
19:03:23 <_TPG> bero|2: thanks for checking this
19:03:40 <_TPG> proyvind: hi, can you give me write access to /software ?
19:04:14 <blackcrack> so, i mus be tomorrow fresh, i jump now in my bed.. see yea and manny fun :)
19:05:32 <itchka> Schlaf gut
19:06:26 <blackcrack> danke ciaoyy :)
19:06:42 <_TPG> what about alpha release ?
19:07:00 <_TPG> are we going to release 3 this year ? :p
19:07:12 <itchka> _TPG: Can we really go with broken vlc ?
19:07:38 <_TPG> itchka: vlc is not broken
19:07:54 <_TPG> there are two different version on i586 and x86_64
19:08:09 <itchka> ah I see
19:11:05 <itchka> So major points are that Calamares won't run from desktop. Can't we just use "run from terminal" to fix that. It's not pretty but iirc I made that work.
19:12:05 <itchka> second itchka is not happy with bugs in Calamares partitoner and EFI install.
19:12:12 <itchka> anything else?
19:12:33 <_TPG> itchka: using auto-partitioning works fine in calamares
19:12:42 <_TPG> itchka: vlc
19:13:23 <_TPG> itchka: what about samba ?
19:13:36 <_TPG> does it work for cooker ?
19:14:11 <itchka> No time to test for me Blacky says it's working fine.
19:15:40 <itchka> _TPG: Auto-partitoning does not give you a /home partiton I don't know why it shouldn't.
19:16:11 <itchka> TPG: I'll test cooker samba tonight.
19:16:27 <_TPG> itchka: a separate /home partition
19:17:01 <_TPG> itchka: our installed does not do that either in auto mode
19:17:09 <_TPG> drakx installer
19:17:18 * bero|2 thinks we should default to having a separate /home partition that won't get wiped on reinstalls...
19:17:25 <bero|2> But not a must-have for the alpha
19:18:45 <_TPG> bero|2: wit manual partitioning in calamares this is easily to do
19:19:01 <bero|2> sure
19:19:08 <bero|2> but that's not what your typical newbie will do
19:19:19 <bero|2> but he'll be the first to complain "I updated to the new version and lost all my data"
19:19:30 <_TPG> bero|2: typical newbie will erase his windows installation
19:20:26 <itchka> TPG: How to make friends and influence people :)
19:20:43 <klebedeff> lol:)))
19:22:37 <itchka> bero|2: I' just feel very uncomfortable with a partitonerthat is still under heavy development. Users are not going to that us if their installations get destroyed because of unpredicatable behaviour.
19:23:19 <ashledombos> btw, it seems that the ubuntu family doesn't make a home partition by default
19:24:03 <ashledombos> it's not a good idea, the best one is to use logical volumes
19:24:12 <itchka> At least the old Draklive-install doesn't have any nasty surprises. Why don't we wait for beta before we push Calamares by that time we should at least see some of the issues squashed.
19:24:50 <itchka> ashledombus: They stomp all over windows installations too.
19:25:08 <itchka> Just plain arrogance.
19:25:55 <itchka> Calamares can't do logical volumes
19:26:10 <itchka> at least not yet.
19:26:15 <ashledombos> what is sad is that proyvind did not promote more his installer, I've tested it and found it quite impressive, with cli and X interface, recovery mod, efi/uefi working like in rosa or ubuntu...
19:26:25 <ashledombos> it has even usb install with persistency...
19:27:52 <itchka> ashledombus: The general opinion around here is that the drakx codebase is unmaintainable
19:28:05 <ashledombos> i understand this opinion
19:28:27 <_TPG> itchka: ofcourse it is
19:28:42 <_TPG> does anyone works on drakx here, except pok ?
19:29:18 <_TPG> itchka: and yes calamares can do lvm, dunno from where you got that false assumptions
19:30:28 <itchka> I read in in the comments of some of the code it said something to the effect of " Cowardly avoid raid and lvm for now"
19:30:59 <itchka> Partitoner code that I was looking at. Maybe it was an old comment.
19:31:02 <_TPG> rather than reading *comments* just ask calmares maintainer
19:31:39 <_TPG> second partitionmanager is not experimental and unstable code
19:31:51 <_TPG> it is around in KDE for ages
19:32:08 <fedya_> need to drop drakx stuff
19:32:13 <_TPG> second if this was so shitty, then others would not get adopt calamares
19:32:15 <fedya_> it's rly outdated
19:32:52 <_TPG> fedya_: true, but some people are binded to that old perl code
19:33:18 <_TPG> this sounds like systemd case in debian :0
19:33:46 <ashledombos> mm, personally i'm not binded to perl code :)
19:34:09 <ashledombos> i even don't know perl
19:34:25 <_TPG> btw does anyone noticed that main/testing for 2014.0 is not refreshed, even if new packages are there
19:34:27 <itchka> Well my opinion is that the partitoner whatever it can or can't do in Calamares is not ready for prime time. I feel that we should not release it yet because all we will achieve is to give it a bad reputation which is doesn't deserve.
19:34:59 <itchka> No
19:35:00 <ben79> If we drop drakx stuff, and it seems we should, shouldn't we replace it with newe apps with similar functionality? (Says the QA guy who can't write a bit of code...)
19:35:04 <_TPG> i'm using /main/testing from ABF directly and did not get any updates for quite long time
19:35:42 <_TPG> ben79: we may rewrite most important things in Qt
19:35:51 <itchka> Hang on I'll check what I'm using because I am getting updates.
19:36:05 <_TPG> prolly it is only me
19:36:24 <ashledombos> personally i have updates, even if they fail to install today
19:37:00 <itchka> I'm using $MIRRORLIST and it's working
19:37:11 <ben79> _TPG: makes sense. It would take some time to replace all of it. Need more developers.
19:37:24 <_TPG> ok thanks prolly this is my local mirror
19:37:45 <_TPG> what for is used drakxtools today ?
19:38:12 <_TPG> first it used to use nvidia/amd blob drivers switch
19:38:25 <_TPG> this can be achieved differently in easier way
19:39:01 <itchka> It sets up samba and nfs painlessly
19:39:12 <_TPG> ok this is one advantage
19:39:19 <_TPG> so samba and nfs
19:39:23 <_TPG> what else
19:39:39 <itchka> Printer setup
19:39:43 <_TPG> pls
19:39:56 <ben79> _TPG: I guess I would ask what tools do we need for users to make experience similar to Mandrake/Mandriva.
19:39:58 <_TPG> you can do this with hp-systray, kprinter, using cups
19:40:09 <itchka> and maybe user setup
19:40:21 <_TPG> user setup can be easily done from KDE
19:40:30 <_TPG> not to mention about console
19:41:03 <_TPG> oh wait KDE can also setup samba and nfs
19:41:20 <itchka> scanners it' pretty good on that.
19:41:54 <itchka> Where is the samba and nfs tool I'vce never seen it.
19:41:54 <_TPG> klitescanner is also good
19:42:03 <ashledombos> _TPG: kde tools are usable inside lxqt without installing the whole kde?
19:43:25 <_TPG> ashledombos: some of kde tools needs part of kde
19:43:27 <ben79> GUI for setting time/date/ntp which I'm sure exists. More to the point putting all of the stuff in one place like OMCC and/or KDE/LX systemsettings. Just thinking out loud...
19:43:33 <ashledombos> btw we should also find an alternative to drakxconf
19:43:53 <_TPG> ben79: systemd-timedatectl handles NTP
19:44:04 <ashledombos> especially for installing prop drivers
19:44:07 <_TPG> so user do not need to do
19:44:14 <itchka> I think the point is being somewhat missed here. The drakx tools are about branding anout bein just a little bit difference from everyone else. They provided a choice that you only got with Mandriva. If we were all utilitarian we'ed all still be using emacs
19:44:37 <Xu_R> ^
19:44:58 <itchka> Sorry about the spelling passion took over :)
19:45:10 <_TPG> itchka: for example Arch does not have drakx, instead of they have a great wiki, everything well explained
19:45:27 <_TPG> does that mean if arch have drakx like stuff would be uber linux distribution
19:45:28 <ben79> Yeah all the stuff is there just needs to be in OpenMandriva Control Center and/or KDE/LXQt system settings. Or something like that?
19:45:29 <_TPG> ?
19:45:35 <ashledombos> from philosophical pov, I agree itchka, one of the identity of mdv is to provide mdv-made tools
19:46:12 <itchka> _TPG: Yes their wiki is brilliant and I use it alot but is doesn't persuade me to use arch because I don't have to.
19:46:12 <ashledombos> but i don't think it's necessary to stick with this philosophy if it's not sustainable
19:47:08 <ashledombos> at the end, people want a stable, easy, up-to-date and with lot of softwares distro
19:48:08 <itchka> ashledombus: Maybe so but we need to have some distinguishing aspect currently I believe it's Rugyadas very attractibe artwork and the nippiness of our kernel.
19:48:41 <ashledombos> yes, and even why not do what linux mint or eOS does with ubuntu
19:49:07 <ben79> Yeah, and the original idea (Mandrake) was to have a GUI where one enter password and could do most common admin tasks from one location. MCC/drakconf or Yast being best examples.
19:50:02 <ben79> And as Yast is essential to SUSE brand MCC/drakconf was essential to Mandrake/Mandriva brand.
19:50:11 <itchka> Smart usability; I've said it before and I'll say it again we should be outAppling Apple.
19:50:13 <ashledombos> itchka: i really think we could explore the possibilities of KDE/Plasma to unleash some look n feel not yet done in other distros
19:50:29 <_TPG> what i'm trying to say is that drakxtools are a bunch or perl code that creates or modify config files for low level programs
19:50:53 <_TPG> and whe should start a Qt5 project that will achieve same level as drakxtools
19:51:04 <bero|2> itchka: And in order to do that, we need maintainable code -- that means we need to be able to throw out unreadable spaghetti code that was useful when it was written 20 years ago
19:51:12 <bero|2> _TPG: +1
19:51:28 <_TPG> for instance KaOS started such idea, and this is written in Qt5 in qtcreator
19:51:50 <_TPG> looks like oma-welcome with possibility to change basic settings
19:51:56 <ben79> Yeah, _TPG. Dump the outdated perl code and do same thing in a more modern, efficient but special to openMandriva
19:52:07 <_TPG> that's not big deal
19:52:20 <bero|2> ben79: yes, that's essentially the idea
19:52:26 <bero|2> We need to get rid of the perl and GTK crap
19:52:41 <_TPG> but when we start coding it would less harder for us the get it in shape over the time
19:52:43 <ashledombos> I don't know if it's doable, but to follow itchka, somehow in ideal world we should provide and maintain, of course if possible: something that is branded openmandriva, and why not that other distro take from us :)
19:52:52 <ben79> Which would also create more seperation from Mageia, PSLinuxOS and so forth and maybe attract more developers evn.
19:53:13 <ben79> evn=even
19:53:35 <_TPG> i may start this but first i need to get qt-creator update for 2014.0
19:53:42 <itchka> bero|2: I think I have been misunderstood in no way am I promoting pasta. The sooner we see the back of that stuff the better. I am trying to make the point about branding.
19:54:02 <ben79> Could announcing such a major, ground breaking project attract more developers with fresh ideas for this?
19:54:08 <bero|2> itchka: yes -- point taken, we need to put some branding into the new tools
19:54:10 <_TPG> getting simple look and feel main window is easy, same goes for user managemet
19:54:58 <itchka> The thing is that some of the Mageia people are involved in such a project. They invited us to participate I think.
19:55:04 <_TPG> look on KaOS oma-welcome https://github.com/KaOSx/welcome
19:55:30 <_TPG> it's easy to do for them, so for us this will be a piece of cake
19:55:43 <Kvok_> Are newcomers even reading oma-welcome? I mean usually people close any window that come up with start
19:56:18 <_TPG> Kvok_: well they need to tick disable box
19:56:36 <_TPG> so at least they spend few secs on first page :)
19:57:18 <Kvok_> Well I see it more as a tool for begining admins
19:58:15 <ben79> If Mageia are doing this should we not look into participating. At least investigate the possibility?
19:58:33 <ashledombos> itchka: which project?
19:58:39 <ashledombos> look n feel?
19:59:01 <itchka> Maybe that is where we should try some branding ideas. We could make oma-welcome more proactive. Simple thing this pos up a message saying "What do you want me to do?"
19:59:40 <ashledombos> what would be great would be a kind of animated tutorial
19:59:51 <_TPG> ben79: adminpanel from mageia is also a good option to research
20:00:11 <_TPG> but it is not even ready for alpha stage
20:00:27 <_TPG> it does not have all the drakxtools features
20:00:31 <ben79> I use/test OMA-Welcome but disable it popping up  everytime I start system.
20:00:36 <itchka> ashledombus: _TPG just came up with it adminpanel
20:01:01 <_TPG> sounds more like politics and some people are binded to drakxtools on mageia too
20:01:10 <ben79> _TPG: I'll have to look at that. My TO/DO list has grown today...
20:01:41 <itchka> _TPG: You could be right there
20:02:12 <fedya_> >drakxtools on mageia too
20:02:21 <fedya_> and rpm4 ;)
20:02:25 <_TPG> :D
20:02:30 <fedya_> and other ancient crap
20:02:32 <_TPG> and gcc
20:02:44 <itchka> Keeps 'em bust :)
20:02:50 <itchka> busy
20:03:21 <_TPG> few days ago i read they finally got EFI booting iso
20:03:48 <itchka> You mean we beat them!! Halleujah
20:03:49 <_TPG> so we had it long time before them, because we have itchka here
20:04:31 <ben79> Opinion: If we had as many developers/testers/other QA/users as Mageia I believe we would have been the #1 KDE distro in that recent review instead of openSUSE.
20:04:51 <fedya_> ben79 - true
20:05:31 <_TPG> most of distros ship same KDE codebase, times when distros were customising kde by patching is long gone
20:05:56 <_TPG> so these reviews for me are not very real
20:06:08 <ben79> I like our innovation, forward thinking vs. Mageia. That being said Mageia was a good distro when I tried it.
20:06:50 <ashledombos> lack of packagers too
20:07:01 <_TPG> anyways so what are we going to do with alpha release ?
20:07:40 <itchka> _TPG: I take it you feel it's ready for a real alpha yes?
20:08:50 <_TPG> itchka: just asking what we are going to do with alpha release, as release plan is outdated
20:09:05 <_TPG> would be nice to announce something
20:09:22 <ben79> Well if we release something in near future it won't be Plasma 5 and shouldn't be KDE4 so release ALPHA LXQT desktop with Calamares installer. Maybe have draklive-installer availble to install and use in Live mode if a user needs to?
20:09:24 <_TPG> some dates when people should expect new release
20:09:56 <itchka> _TPG: Let's look at beta first
20:10:22 <itchka> bero|2: KDE 5 stability is there a timescale?
20:10:57 <_TPG> https://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5
20:11:19 <itchka> I haven't used it yet so I don't know how unstable it really is.
20:11:28 <fedya_> itchka: kde5 + stability - oxymoron
20:12:08 <itchka> fedya_: hmm that bad :)
20:12:12 <ashledombos> who is oxy? :)
20:12:27 <itchka> a moron what do you think!! :)
20:13:30 <ashledombos> hope that soon KDE and stability will become a pleonasm :)
20:13:44 <itchka> _TPG: so it's either the end of April or end of July
20:13:56 <_TPG> first Qt guys needs to fix this bug https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-44895
20:13:57 <ben79> In 2015.0 yesterday plasma5 (task-plasma5 I believe) desktop doesn't start at login it segfaults.
20:14:05 <_TPG> because of it Plasma segfaults
20:14:42 <_TPG> Qt devs still do not know where problem lies
20:15:03 <_TPG> so when this bug fill be fixed we may get forward with Plasma 5
20:15:45 <ben79> I have Plasma 5 installed in openSUSE 13.2 in VBox but just installed, haven't used enough to see how it is.
20:15:59 <itchka> In English we have a saying " How long is a piece of string" ......
20:16:25 <_TPG> ben79: this bug is Qt 5.5.0 related, other distros are still on Qt 5.4 version
20:16:55 <ben79> Ah, ha.
20:17:44 <ben79> I just want to see what it looks like and how it works. But will prefer to do so in OM Lx.
20:17:56 <_TPG> ok i have feeling a dedicated meeting for release plan is needed
20:17:57 <itchka> _TPG: How about we go for the bugfix release in May
20:18:43 <itchka> _TPG: Sure
20:19:36 <itchka> Shall we close the meeting?
20:19:46 <klebedeff> _TPG: shall we repeat united meeting?
20:20:05 <klebedeff> I have already collected few more ideas for agenda
20:20:24 <bero|2> my X server is somewhat crashy today :/
20:20:55 <bero|2> didn't see the last couple of minutes
20:21:47 <_TPG> klebedeff: would be the best idea to get another meeting
20:22:20 <klebedeff> OK, I will send around notification then for next wednesday same time with agenda suggestion, first being release plan
20:22:22 <klebedeff> yes?
20:22:23 <ben79> bero|2: We agreed to rewrite everything in perl.
20:23:12 <bero_mobile> and, no doubt, to drop all the Qt crap in favor of GTK and winelib
20:23:13 <itchka> bero|2 in private tab
20:23:14 <itchka> Ben ......!!!
20:23:34 <ben79> And revert to KDE3.2!
20:23:47 <itchka> and what wrong with winelib!? :)
20:23:55 <_TPG> klebedeff: +1
20:24:18 <itchka> Yes wednesday is so much better for me.
20:24:39 <ben79> OK, big meeting Wednesday, April 8 15:00 UTC.
20:24:56 <bero_mobile> we should also drop x86_64 support, 16-bit is the future!
20:25:26 <klebedeff> agenda will go around, OK:)
20:25:34 <klebedeff> I really enjoyed the combined one
20:25:41 <itchka> That's real risc bero|2 slim and fast
20:25:44 <klebedeff> topics are covered wider, good:)
20:26:00 <ashledombos> I'd like to raise a technical topic btw, is this current one the last in the list?
20:26:01 <ben79> bero_mobile: Yeah, that's the ticket!
20:26:43 <_TPG> but let's keep drakxtools :p
20:27:00 <itchka> What all of it!!?
20:27:43 <_TPG> ok so we finish today's meeting ?
20:27:44 <ashledombos> btw i meant previously alternative to xfdrake, not drakxtools
20:27:45 <itchka> ashledombus: Whay is your issue?
20:27:53 <itchka> Whay=what
20:27:58 <ashledombos> itchka: not an issue, but an information
20:28:08 <ashledombos> we got back our servers from infra
20:28:16 <ashledombos> two rack servers
20:28:49 <itchka> The two is Paris yes?
20:29:03 <ashledombos> yes
20:29:14 <ashledombos> If I'm correct, here are the specs
20:29:16 <ashledombos> Intel Xeon E3-1220 3.1GHZ 4 Cores HT 8MB 5GT/s 80W 2,00
20:29:17 <ashledombos> Supermicro Heatsink 1U 1156 1155 ( SNK-P0046P ) 2,00
20:29:19 <ashledombos> Supermicro X9SCL-F Bulk 2,00
20:29:20 <ashledombos> -> Up to 32GB DDR3 ECC 1333MHz
20:29:22 <ashledombos> 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz ECC Unbuffered certifiée Supermicro 4,00
20:29:23 <ashledombos> Western Digital RE4 2TB 7200 64MB ( WD2003FYYS ) 4,00
20:29:25 <ashledombos> Supermicro 1U SC811TQ-280B
20:29:26 <ashledombos> 5 servers:
20:29:28 <ashledombos> Intel Xeon E5-2620 2.00GHz 6 Cores HT 7.2GT/s 15MB 95W 10,00
20:29:29 <ashledombos> 8GB DDR3 1600 ECC Registered 80,00
20:29:31 <ashledombos> Western Digital RE4 2TB 7200 64MB ( WD2003FYYS ) 10,00
20:29:32 <ashledombos> Supermicro SuperServer 1U 6017R-WRF 5,00
20:29:34 <ashledombos> ->Intel® i350 Dual port GbE LAN
20:29:35 <ashledombos> --> IPMI 2.0 and KVM with Dedicated LAN
20:29:37 <ashledombos> -->700W Redundant Power Supplies
20:29:38 <ashledombos> 80 PLUS, Gold Level Certified
20:29:40 <ashledombos> ---> Up to 512GB DDR3/ 16x DIMM sockets
20:29:41 <ashledombos> 2U servers
20:29:43 <ashledombos> 2 servers:
20:29:44 <ashledombos> Intel Xeon E5-2620 2.00GHz 6 Cores HT 7.2GT/s 15MB 95W 4,00
20:29:46 <ashledombos> 8GB DDR3 1600 ECC Registered 32,00
20:29:47 <ashledombos> Western Digital RE4 2TB 7200 64MB ( WD2003FYYS ) 24,00
20:29:49 <ashledombos> Supermicro SuperServer 2U 6027R-E1R12N 2,00
20:29:50 <ashledombos> -> LSI 2108 SAS2 RAID AOC Hardware RAID 0, 1, 5, 6, 10, 50, 60
20:29:52 <ashledombos> Supermicro LSI00161 1BBU07 BBU pour SAS2108 2,00
20:29:53 <ashledombos> Supermicro Kit pour BBU LSI ( BTR-0018L-KIT ) 2,00
20:29:55 <ashledombos> -> 4x Gigabit Ethernet LAN ports
20:29:56 <ashledombos> --> IPMI 2.0 and KVM with Dedicated LAN
20:29:58 <ashledombos> Up to 768GB DDR3 / 24x DIMM sockets
20:29:59 <ashledombos> -> 920W high-efficiency (94%+) AC-DC Redundant power supplies
20:30:01 <ashledombos> 1 server:
20:30:02 <ashledombos> Intel Xeon E5-2620 2.00GHz 6 Cores HT 7.2GT/s 15MB 95W 2,00
20:30:04 <ashledombos> 8GB DDR3 1600 ECC Registered 16,00
20:30:05 <ashledombos> Seagate Cheetah 15K.7 600GB SAS2 15000RPM 16MB (ST3600057SS) 12,00
20:30:07 <ashledombos> Supermicro SuperServer 2U 6027R-E1R12N 1,00
20:30:08 <ashledombos> -> LSI 2108 SAS2 RAID AOC Hardware RAID 0, 1, 5, 6, 10, 50, 60
20:30:10 <ashledombos> SUPERBTR0018L0000L
20:30:11 <ashledombos> SUPERBTR0018LKIT
20:30:13 <ashledombos> -> 4x Gigabit Ethernet LAN ports
20:30:14 <ashledombos> --> IPMI 2.0 and KVM with Dedicated LAN
20:30:16 <ashledombos> Up to 768GB DDR3 / 24x DIMM sockets
20:30:17 <ashledombos> -> 920W high-efficiency (94%+) AC-DC Redundant power supplies
20:30:19 <ashledombos> _______________________________________________
20:30:20 <ashledombos> OM-Infra mailing list
20:30:22 <ashledombos> OM-Infra@ml.openmandriva.org
20:30:23 <ashledombos> http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-infra-openmandriva.org
20:30:25 <ashledombos> Jean-Claude Vanier jclvanier@gmail.com via hodo.fr
20:30:26 <ashledombos> 
20:30:28 <ashledombos> 14/11/2013
20:30:29 <ashledombos> 
20:30:31 <ashledombos> À OpenMandriva
20:30:32 <ashledombos> First rough estimation:
20:30:35 <ashledombos> Intel Xeon E3-1220v2
20:30:36 <ashledombos> http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00140374.html
20:30:37 <ashledombos> 750 euros
20:30:39 <ashledombos> Intel Xeon E5-2620
20:30:40 <ashledombos> http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00149472.html
20:30:42 <ashledombos> 1900 euros
20:30:43 <ashledombos> Of course, this is not very accurate as I did not consider the real
20:30:45 <ashledombos> config (e.g. hard disks).
20:30:46 <ashledombos> > _______________________________________________
20:30:48 <ashledombos> > OM-Infra mailing list
20:30:49 <ashledombos> > OM-Infra@ml.openmandriva.org
20:30:51 <ashledombos> > http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-infra-openmandriva.org
20:30:52 <ashledombos> >
20:30:54 <ashledombos> _______________________________________________
20:30:55 <ashledombos> OM-Infra mailing list
20:30:57 <ashledombos> OM-Infra@ml.openmandriva.org
20:30:58 <ashledombos> http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-infra-openmandriva.org
20:31:00 <ashledombos> John Cave john@johncave.co.nz via hodo.fr
20:31:01 <ashledombos> 
20:31:03 <ashledombos> 14/11/2013
20:31:04 <ashledombos> 
20:31:06 <ashledombos> À om-infra
20:31:07 <ashledombos> For server pricing I usually go to the system 76 website and soup up a
20:31:09 <ashledombos> server to make it about what I want :)
20:31:10 <ashledombos> http://system76.com
20:31:12 <ashledombos> John
20:31:13 <ashledombos> Kate Lebedeff kate@lebedeff.co.uk via hodo.fr
20:31:15 <ashledombos> 
20:31:16 <ashledombos> 15/11/2013
20:31:18 <ashledombos> 
20:31:19 <ashledombos> À OpenMandriva
20:31:21 <ashledombos> John, Jean-Claude, thank you:)
20:31:22 <ashledombos> _______________________________________________
20:31:24 <ashledombos> OM-Infra mailing list
20:31:25 <ashledombos> OM-Infra@ml.openmandriva.org
20:31:27 <ashledombos> http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-infra-openmandriva.org
20:31:28 <ashledombos> Raphaël Jadot <rj@hodo.fr>
20:31:30 <ashledombos> 
20:31:31 <ashledombos> 30 mars (Il y a 2 jours)
20:31:33 <ashledombos> 
20:31:34 <ashledombos> À Kate, Jean-Claude
20:31:36 <ashledombos> About the servers, I'm not sure about which one they are, I guess the 2 first one
20:31:37 <ashledombos> Jean-Claude Vanier
20:31:39 <ashledombos> 
20:31:40 <ashledombos> 30 mars (Il y a 2 jours)
20:31:42 <ashledombos> 
20:31:42 <_TPG> ?
20:31:43 <ashledombos> oops
20:31:45 <ashledombos> bad copy paste, i'm lucky not to get kicked
20:31:46 <ashledombos> sorry
20:31:48 <ashledombos> 2 servers:
20:31:49 <ashledombos> Intel Xeon E3-1220 3.1GHZ 4 Cores HT 8MB 5GT/s 80W 2,00
20:31:51 <ashledombos> Supermicro Heatsink 1U 1156 1155 ( SNK-P0046P ) 2,00
20:31:52 <ashledombos> Supermicro X9SCL-F Bulk 2,00
20:31:54 <ashledombos> -> Up to 32GB DDR3 ECC 1333MHz
20:31:55 <ashledombos> 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz ECC Unbuffered certifiée Supermicro 4,00
20:31:57 <ashledombos> Western Digital RE4 2TB 7200 64MB ( WD2003FYYS ) 4,00
20:31:57 <_TPG> ashledombos: wait for it
20:31:58 <ashledombos> Supermicro 1U SC811TQ-280B
20:32:00 <ashledombos> are you stil there?
20:32:04 <ashledombos> ok, i was afraid i was kicked because of involontary flood
20:32:21 <ashledombos> so the last ten lines are the good one
20:32:35 <fedya_> _TPG papyros-shell WORKING
20:32:38 <itchka> ashledombus: You seem to be still here
20:32:41 <_TPG> fedya_: :O
20:32:54 <fedya_> wait a sec
20:32:55 <_TPG> omg going to try it asap
20:32:58 <ashledombos> so the question is what do we do with them, I wondered if they could be used for abf
20:33:00 <fedya_> i'll give a screenshot
20:33:05 <fedya_> it's looks COOL
20:33:09 <ashledombos> but avokhmin could say
20:33:18 <ashledombos> and if yes, where
20:33:55 <ashledombos> if not, what do we do with them
20:34:02 <itchka> avokhmin is here.
20:34:12 <avokhmin> ashledombos: can you write a email to me and _TPG ?
20:34:31 <fedya_> http://f-picture.net/lfp/s017.radikal.ru/i421/1504/09/2b33e350cb76.png
20:34:36 <fedya_> oh 10\10
20:34:39 <itchka> ashledombus: What is their value now?
20:35:02 <_TPG> fedya_: link is broken
20:35:09 <fedya_> _TPG http://f-picture.net/lfp/s017.radikal.ru/i421/1504/09/2b33e350cb76.png/htm
20:36:09 <itchka> That is rather good isn't it.!
20:36:16 <ashledombos> itchka: JCL made an estimation, when they were bought, they were 750 to 1000 euros
20:37:09 <klebedeff> more:)
20:37:10 <_TPG> fedya_: i'm installing on real hardware
20:37:37 <_TPG> fedya_: hope it will work on my lenovo t440
20:37:55 <_TPG> fedya_: we need to get a nice video for show off
20:38:47 <ashledombos> funny, in fedya_'s screenshot, "[22:31] <_TPG> ?" happens before my question "[22:30] <ashledombos> are you stil there?"
20:39:03 <ashledombos> anyway, avokhmin you think it may worth it?
20:40:01 <fedya_> _TPG well, try it. It looks very cool
20:40:04 <avokhmin> ashledombos: can we change something on this servers?
20:40:13 <fedya_> i feel it much better than KDE
20:40:17 <_TPG> fedya_: works \o/
20:40:19 <ashledombos> it's ours, so we need a place to host them
20:40:26 <fedya_> and probably will move from kde to papyros
20:40:44 <ashledombos> i thought about bero's place, but maybe other is good?
20:40:47 <_TPG> fedya_: one glitch i have white screen, no wallpaper :(
20:40:55 <fedya_> _TPG in vbox it works slow
20:40:58 <fedya_> Hmm
20:41:05 <fedya_> White screen and nothing more?
20:41:07 <avokhmin> ah, it real servers
20:41:11 <avokhmin> not rent?
20:41:31 <klebedeff> яуыб щгк зряышсфд ыукмукы
20:41:36 <avokhmin> :)
20:41:37 <klebedeff> yes our physical servers
20:41:44 <fedya_> _TPG make sure that's installed today version
20:42:03 <_TPG> fedya_: just installed it few seconds ago from ABF on real hw
20:42:11 <avokhmin> in this case: 'bero's place' looks good
20:42:20 <_TPG> menus are working, but wallpaper is white
20:42:29 <fedya_> _TPG and you see something like... (wait few secs a making a photo)
20:42:36 <bero|2> I think I'll have to reinstall this box, X server keeps crashing today for no visible reason
20:43:40 <bero|2> fedya_: _TPG: So how do you start papyros-shell? Just get out of X and run it?
20:43:51 <_TPG> bero|2: yes
20:44:03 <_TPG> i started it on real hardware as wayland
20:44:11 <_TPG> in vbox it uses xcb
20:44:22 <_TPG> so this may explain that white wallpaper
20:44:34 <_TPG> because of wayland
20:45:21 <fedya_> _TPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CfMLYCLXDB4/VRxYzcomM-I/AAAAAAAAYmY/a8seaqjS4Qk/w1161-h871-no/IMG_20150401_234441.jpg
20:46:06 <_TPG> fedya_: no i had menus, which was working preety nice
20:46:17 <fedya_> _TPG hmmm
20:46:26 <itchka> ashledombus: Uk ebay is showing around £350 for such servers euro is currently 1.4 to the pound
20:46:46 <_TPG> fedya_: maybe that qml-material needs update
20:46:57 <bero|2> looks a lot like Android
20:46:59 <ashledombos> yes, they should have lower cost now
20:47:15 <ashledombos> bero|2: do you think doable to host them?
20:47:28 <fedya_> _TPG need to wait for new commits
20:47:38 <ashledombos> or we should find another place?
20:47:44 <fedya_> bero|2 yes looks pretty with material design
20:48:12 <bero|2> btw, for some reason it starts in an X window here, I thought it was supposed to be wayland... But maybe it just detects that X is running and then tries to integrate
20:48:16 <_TPG> fedya_: bero|2building new iso with weston and papyros-shell https://abf.io/platforms/cooker/products/127/product_build_lists/10234
20:48:38 <bero|2> ashledombos: If we can find another place that would be better -- there are a lot of weeks when I'm just not at home and if something goes wrong, nobody can kick the servers if they're here
20:48:48 <bero|2> But if we don't find a better place...
20:49:07 <ashledombos> then anyone could host them?
20:49:09 <ashledombos> fedya?
20:49:31 <fedya_> ashledombos i can't now
20:49:46 <fedya_> i maintain 3 servers in office
20:50:00 <fedya_> but i not employed by mezon.ru now
20:50:00 <itchka> I have 20Mbit upload here is that enough?
20:50:08 <ashledombos> and you're pretty far :p
20:50:08 <fedya_> 20mbit is okay
20:50:19 <bero|2> itchka: I have 5, so 20 is way more than enough ;)
20:50:21 <itchka> I could probably host one
20:50:34 <bero|2> 50 down, 5 up here
20:50:50 <ashledombos> itchka: yes, if ever they could be used for abf, we could maybe even rent additional internet connection
20:51:02 <ashledombos> if even
20:51:16 <ashledombos> for not bothering
20:51:41 <ashledombos> but they are real rack servers, somehow noisy
20:51:54 <ashledombos> not traditional towers
20:52:52 <ashledombos> We can continue this discussion by email with avokhmin, _TPG, anyone interested
20:53:08 <avokhmin> ashledombos: +1
20:53:35 <ashledombos> itchka: wdyt?
20:53:52 <itchka> I guess I could put them in a cupboard but I have an 8 way 3gig zeon here with 12gig ram and a full raid setup which i could connecto abf now and it would perform almost as well as what you ahve there.
20:54:32 <_TPG> ok i have to go
20:54:40 <itchka> I just need to know how to connect it (It's also a tower so it's quiet)
20:54:55 <ashledombos> ok
20:55:01 <_TPG> are we closing this meeting logs ?
20:55:13 <ashledombos> itchka: I'll send an email
20:55:20 <klebedeff> дщщлы дшлу сдщыштп
20:55:20 <itchka> I think we should
20:55:31 <klebedeff> closing
20:55:32 <klebedeff> :)
20:55:37 <_TPG> #endmeeting