15:02:51 <itchka_> #startmeeting
15:02:51 <chwido> Meeting started Wed May 13 15:02:51 2015 UTC.  The chair is itchka_. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.openmandriva.org/om/en/MeetBot.
15:02:51 <chwido> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:03:34 <klebedeff> https://project.openmandriva.org/news/15-tc-council-meeting
15:03:34 <itchka_> Ok all those present say AYE (yes) excepts chris_w
15:03:48 <itchka_> Thank you Kate :)
15:03:51 <klebedeff> aye:)
15:04:34 <itchka_> aye
15:05:15 <klebedeff> ashledombos: ben79 crisb_w fedya_ JLP_ markelite n3npq nicco_ oiram73 OnlyHuman pcpa Xu_R
15:06:18 <itchka_> I guess we wait a bit...
15:06:32 <klebedeff> looks so
15:06:45 <ben79> aye
15:06:55 <itchka_> Hi Ben
15:07:03 <crisb_w> itchka_: while you're waiting you forgot to push libgsf ;)
15:07:09 <ben79> HI Colin
15:07:11 <OnlyHuman> here Miss
15:07:22 <klebedeff> hi:)
15:07:35 <OnlyHuman> :)
15:07:36 <itchka_> Youre getting the idea OnlyHuman :)
15:08:37 <OnlyHuman> hi itchka_ has a nasty shock when saw email from omdv
15:08:38 <itchka_> ok crisb_w I'll do Firefox while I'm at it
15:09:52 <OnlyHuman> hopefully sorted now abf notifactions doesn't send every single bit of info
15:10:40 <crisb_w> itchka_: ta, dont forget to do nss with it :)
15:10:41 <OnlyHuman> took a while removing nearly 6000 junk emails
15:12:32 <itchka_> OnlyHuman: You can turn them off in ABF perhaps sending should not be the default!!
15:13:17 <OnlyHuman> I should certainly think default should not be to send spam to users email
15:14:15 <klebedeff> OnlyHuman: you mean from ABF or something else?
15:14:25 <itchka_> OnlyHuman: Yes I agree; a sensible default would be to send for the users packages only
15:14:36 <OnlyHuman> I imagine in a year someone may get about 1000000 junk emails from abf
15:14:51 <klebedeff> ah, I see
15:17:45 <itchka_> Well folks I guess we will have to hope that others turn up later its not fair to keep everyon else hanging around so we will start.
15:18:38 <itchka_> #Item1 Release Status: Current Issues
15:19:37 <itchka_> I had hoped that _TPG would be here to report on this but I'm afraid you'll have to make do with my observatiion.
15:19:47 <crisb_w> we have the issue with clang and gcc not playing together properly
15:20:03 <itchka_> That is still an issue?
15:20:04 <crisb_w> currently blocking the mass build
15:20:32 <OnlyHuman> sounds a clanger to me
15:21:07 <crisb_w> yeh we either need to use the old abi or patch clang (i dont think there is a patch yet)
15:21:11 <itchka_> :) Bad news does anyone have any idea how to fix it? Or do we have to wait for the clang guys to catch up?
15:22:48 <crisb_w> if we use the old abi its not a massive deal, just we'll be stuck with it until the next mass build
15:23:28 <itchka_> cris_w: It's a bit of an openended situation isn't it. Like the K5 QML bug I would think we lost a month on that one possibly more.
15:24:33 <crisb_w> maybe bero can talk to his contacts
15:26:05 <itchka_> cris_w: Do you think you could push this along with bero. I think TPG has his hands full at the moment with trying to get K5 stable.
15:27:24 <itchka_> Looks like to 2014.2 update is becoming an increasingly good idea..
15:28:43 <crisb_w> sure
15:29:09 <itchka_> Thanks cris_w
15:29:25 <itchka_> I can report to an extent on K5 progress.
15:30:43 <itchka_> TPG published a Plasma5 iso this morning. It has a few issues like you have to jump through a few hoops to get the live image to boot and a few more to get K5 to start (see my mail on the QA list)
15:31:10 <itchka_> But there's no doubt that plasma5 is now functional.
15:31:30 <crisb_w> well done!
15:32:47 <itchka_> We should see a properly working iso this week sometime. Then we are in a position to start some testing.
15:33:49 <itchka_> What is the score here? Should we have another alpha release as a starting poin?
15:34:05 <itchka_> point
15:35:39 <crisb_w> i dont think there's enough people around to make a call on that
15:36:20 <fedya> i'm here
15:36:35 <itchka_> I agree I wasn't proposing a call just some general comment really the release call is up to _TPG
15:36:55 <itchka_> Hi fedya
15:37:45 <ben79> I think a K5 alpha would be a good idea.
15:38:11 <ben79> Also a 2014.2 release is good idea.
15:39:40 <ben79> Wish I had a better idea for something new to make 2014.2 release more interesting.
15:40:22 <itchka_> There still some work to do on Calamares we could really do with someone with some c++ skils to help out on that project. If we could get that maybe we could pilot a new installer
15:40:41 <crisb_w> i think at this stage of its lifecycle a new iso with updates to packages is all we should do to it
15:40:50 <ben79> Yeah, 2014.2 with new installer...
15:41:30 <crisb_w> lets just get it out quickly, 2014.1 took a ridiculous amount of time to do
15:42:02 <ben79> that, too, get 'er done.
15:42:20 <crisb_w> it should just be something that says we're still here, have this while you're waiting for the big one!
15:45:00 <itchka_> cris_w: I tend to agree but there's some work to do on the old installer. _tph did some mods on it to try and get the progress bar working using BSDtar and somehow he has broken it. We might have to ship without the progress bar or put GNUtar in the iso somewhere where it doesn't interfere with normal operation.
15:45:01 <ben79> Really all it needs is updated 2014 packages and Calamares installer.
15:46:27 <itchka_> ben79: I do not believe that Calamares is in a fit state to be shipped yet. There are some real issues with installing the bootloader that reach further tahn the EFI ones we discussed the other day.
15:46:28 <crisb_w> itchka_: the version in 2014 wont have those changes
15:48:52 <ben79> itchka_: Good point. Wasn't thinking about that. Also is Calamares partitioner fully debugged?
15:49:20 <OnlyHuman> yes a minimal enlightenment one :)
15:51:05 <itchka_> Ben79: The partitioner has improved quite alot certaily informationally and it now gives a much clearer picture of what will be done but in my view it's still a very poor replacement for Diskdrake.
15:52:15 <crisb_w> O/T: here's an interesting bit on enlightenment.. http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/enlightened/8795
15:52:26 <itchka_> I have a dialog with the main developer and he has accepted a couple of suggestions I have made for improvment so we are moving forward but progress is painfully slow.
15:52:26 <ben79> Well either a partitioner or bootloader not fully functional are big issues.
15:53:33 <nicco__> aye
15:54:37 <ben79> But, I agree, the partitioner has gotten a lot better.
15:55:49 <fedya> _TPG ping
15:56:13 <ben79> So we're suggesting a release of 2014.2 with draklive-installer then?
15:56:24 <crisb_w> god yes!
15:56:26 <itchka_> cris_w: Pretty damning stuff!
15:56:41 <klebedeff> fedya he's got birthday today:)
15:56:55 <fedya> klebedeff i know
15:56:55 <ben79> Happy Birthday!
15:57:07 <itchka_> We should all send him an email.
15:57:10 <ben79> I quit having them...
15:57:37 <itchka_> Hi nicco__
15:58:59 <itchka_> cris_w: Are we finished with updates for 2014.2
16:06:09 <itchka_> If we have could all QA team that are here now please help test the remaining packages in kahinah so that a test iso can be built.
16:09:30 <itchka_> Anything more on development? Subject closes in 3 minutes..
16:14:18 <itchka_> #action Build test iso for 2014.2 release
16:15:13 <itchka_> #item2 Monthly Development Report. (status/future development/ new releases / kernel etc)
16:17:19 <itchka_> This a proposal from me to have monthly Development report. It is a general subject where current news is dispersed about teh technical side of the distro.
16:19:17 <itchka_> As an example I probably should have reported the news about Calamares under this heading. It could include news from fedya or bero about the ARM achitectures etc, etc
16:20:19 <klebedeff> so once in a month to cover all strategic topics?
16:20:47 <itchka_> We don't really have a representative quorum today so we will not vote on this today but a short discussiion amy be fruitful.
16:21:11 <itchka_> klebedeff: That is a good suggestion.
16:21:45 <klebedeff> that is how I understood the monthly  meeting idea:)
16:22:06 <klebedeff> that could be each XX every month, so that people know in advance
16:22:20 <klebedeff> for example each first meeting in a calendar month
16:24:00 <klebedeff> in fact, this is what we do on a smaller scale every week
16:24:40 <klebedeff> but would be very nice to have perspective, especially considering, that it does not require special preparation from the speakers - they know these subjects anyway:)
16:28:54 <itchka_> Ok that sound fine to me. I will revise the item and we will discuss when bero and _TPG are around
16:29:35 <crisb_w> itchka_: yes all updates done now
16:30:46 <crisb_w> right need to get going now
16:31:08 <itchka_> klebedeff: I had missed the monthly bit on the agena item thanks for alerting me to it.
16:31:20 <itchka_> #action Carry Item 2 forward to next meeting
16:31:21 <klebedeff> :)
16:32:05 <crisb_w> ttfn
16:32:51 <itchka_> cris_w: Thanks. QA Team to work please let's get this finished. If everythings tested I'll try and have an iso poster somewhere tonight.
16:38:06 <klebedeff> great that you made it rugyada :)
16:38:37 <itchka_> Hi Rugyada welcome to the meeting.
16:38:38 <rugyada> hello, coming back home right now :) klebedeff
16:38:52 <rugyada> hello everyone
16:38:53 <klebedeff> :)
16:39:01 <itchka_> #item3 Gaming Report
16:39:39 <itchka_> Unfortunately Francisco who is leading this project has had a car accident and cannot be here today.
16:40:36 <itchka_> We will have to carry this item forward to next week.
16:41:14 <OnlyHuman> hope he is ok
16:41:47 <itchka_> I hgather from Klebedeff taht he is.
16:41:58 <itchka_> #action Carry agenda Item 3 forward to next weeks meeting.
16:42:02 <klebedeff> yes he is, but it needs time to fix things and do the checks etc
16:42:41 <itchka_> Are there any infra members here?
16:43:09 <OnlyHuman> has stuff been fixed recently?
16:43:14 <klebedeff> ashledombos: rugyada
16:43:19 <rugyada> it depends for what. I'm present :)
16:43:29 <klebedeff> Xu_R:
16:43:54 <itchka_> #item4 Infra Report
16:44:07 <OnlyHuman> be nice if gdm is fixed and pcmanfm shows on menu
16:44:22 <rugyada> so it's ashledombos matter, I guess.
16:44:25 <OnlyHuman> then maybe can dump kde
16:45:05 <klebedeff> report and new members is item of ashledombos
16:45:20 <klebedeff> though regarding website we can use the chance of rugyada  being here
16:46:09 <rugyada> sure, but Raph is needed as well :)
16:46:09 <itchka_> rugyada; Would you like to pick up on that one?
16:46:37 <rugyada> what I did is to set up a testing wordpress instance
16:46:54 <rugyada> http://paciughi.freetzi.com/blog/
16:46:55 <itchka_> Perhaps we could wait a little longer. I have an infra issue to report on.
16:47:18 <rugyada> this for testing some WP themes
16:47:23 <klebedeff> Raph says that he comes in 20 minutes
16:47:35 <rugyada> I found one I believe very good
16:47:47 <rugyada> and installed there.
16:48:25 <klebedeff> this could replace the current landing page potentially
16:48:32 <rugyada> I had in mind to suggest replacing our current WP theme and it could be used also as landing page
16:48:40 <rugyada> yes klebedeff
16:48:45 <rugyada> potentially :)
16:49:14 <klebedeff> subject to discussion and details of course, but;))
16:49:15 <rugyada> the point would be to have just one place for landing and blog
16:49:26 <klebedeff> would be good to hear people opinions here
16:49:48 <rugyada> yes2 . it's why ashledombos is needed too here to discuss :)
16:50:28 <itchka_> So rugyada let me get this clear.. These are pre-packaged thems from wordpress?
16:50:42 <rugyada> because he spent much time in spip current landing page.
16:51:40 <klebedeff> he is driving home, so should be here soon
16:51:45 <itchka_> Is there somewhere where we can view ashledombuses work?
16:52:14 <ben79> https://discourse.openmandriva.org/c/en
16:52:21 <rugyada> itchka_:  yes it's a FREE theme (it means we can have the same also for, example, the games WP instance. always if  it fits..
16:52:23 <nicco__> seeig is believing... new paciughi page theme is fine for me
16:52:52 <rugyada> itchka_:  ?
16:53:08 <klebedeff> yes itchka_ :) here:) https://www.openmandriva.org/
16:53:37 <rugyada> yes, Raph made the current landing page.
16:53:44 <rugyada> openmandriva.org.
16:54:37 <rugyada> but www openmandriva org is not wordpress.
16:56:35 <nicco__> paciughi... mmm, where is the ice cream?
16:58:22 <rugyada> anyway it is just an anticipation, I think we can discuss more when Raph come back here  :)
16:58:24 <itchka_> Ah I thought he had been working on a new one...
16:58:25 <ben79> nicco_: http://angelobrocatoicecream.com/
16:59:03 <klebedeff> itchka_: it is a new one
16:59:19 <rugyada> it's me who is working at a testing WP template
16:59:25 <rugyada> :P
16:59:25 <klebedeff> comparing to the one we had before , it was replaced just 2-3 weeks ago
16:59:41 <itchka_> I see
17:00:02 <klebedeff> so coffe break till ashledombos comes?
17:01:40 <itchka_> This is a very big subject and I don't think there are enough people around to do it justice.
17:02:36 <klebedeff> I think we need to kick off the topic
17:02:51 <klebedeff> to start the talk, bring main topics up
17:03:07 <klebedeff> and follow up in a week
17:03:54 <rugyada> yes
17:04:07 <OnlyHuman> hmm wonder what person thought would be good not to have dolphin on 2014.1 omdv menu
17:04:13 <itchka_> Ok I have something to report regarding infra so while we are waiting I'll report that.
17:05:36 <itchka_> For a good while now we have been running a pretty old version of Bugzilla. In fact it is now so old that is is starting to misbehave with some browsers.
17:07:43 <itchka_> For the last couple of days amongst other things I have been preparing a new Bugzilla in fact bringing it up to the latest version. If all goes to plan the new server will be available sometimes tonight on issues2.openmandriva.org.
17:08:39 <rugyada> itchka_:  offtopic urpme kdebase4-runtime and urpme kdelibs-core made my broken/dead machine rebirth :)
17:08:49 <itchka_> I would be grateful as many of you as possible try it out; if you can test it with a couple of different browsers so much the better.
17:09:06 <ben79> itchka_: Great news.
17:09:24 <itchka_> rugyada: I'm very pleased to hear that:)
17:10:12 <ben79> Will test when I'm done later today with 2014.1 packages. So far as of yesterday I'm not finding anything wrong with 2014.1 packages.
17:10:34 <ben79> But still a few more tests to go.
17:10:54 <itchka_> The transfer of the bug database form the old Bugzilla to the new will take place if the new site proves to be stable.
17:11:42 <ben79> So when issues2.openmandriva.org is up we  can file test bugs and so forth.
17:11:51 <itchka_> ben79: Thanks for picking up the torch there mate.
17:12:36 <ben79> I've been testing 2014.1 packages but haven't reported anything till now.
17:12:59 <ben79> Looking forward to testing issues2.openmandriva.org
17:16:54 <itchka_> ben79: Regards new Bugzilla it should be fully functional so you can file test bugs and close them; make reports seach and hopefully just about anything that you would wants todo.
17:20:42 <ashledombos> Hi, I'm home and in front of kb now :)
17:21:08 <itchka_> ashledombus: Welcome to the meeting
17:21:52 <ashledombos> thanks itchka_
17:21:55 <itchka_> The agenda is here https://project.openmandriva.org/news/15-tc-council-meeting
17:22:07 <klebedeff> hi ashledombos :)
17:22:15 <ashledombos> hi :)
17:23:12 <itchka_> We are on Item 4. I have reported about the upcoming new Bugzilla and I pleased to report that I can now acces the postgres database remotely. Thanks for your help on that one.
17:24:00 <ashledombos> great!
17:24:13 <ashledombos> good work!
17:26:22 <ashledombos> I'm reading item 4
17:26:44 <ashledombos> about JCL he's not here right now, he's travelling
17:27:13 <ashledombos> So about infra
17:27:40 <ashledombos> There are two big fields in which infra is involved
17:28:13 <ashledombos> one is mainly about webservices dev, maintainance, improvement etc
17:28:22 <ashledombos> the other one is about sysadmin
17:29:14 <ashledombos> Working on both I could say that we are very few
17:30:07 <ashledombos> I'm almost the main one working on it, but the fact is that being on so many different fields is subject to make mistakes sometimes
17:30:43 <ashledombos> If I could list what we need, I'd say first that a good linux sysadmin would be great
17:31:09 <ashledombos> especially if (s)he as knowledge of monitoring programs, tools etc
17:31:31 <klebedeff> I think we need a spec list
17:31:38 <ashledombos> yes
17:31:46 <klebedeff> and then make a call
17:32:10 <ashledombos> I know that leonardo melo wanted to participate but no news since few months
17:32:44 <ashledombos> in fact, we need someone able to watch the overall system and prevent failures, prepare emergency recoveries etc
17:33:09 <klebedeff> please send me the description of the position so to say
17:33:16 <ashledombos> ok
17:33:26 <klebedeff> Leonardo has drowned in his new project:)
17:33:35 <ashledombos> ok :)
17:33:55 <ashledombos> i guess it should not be difficult to find linux sysadmin around us :)
17:34:18 <itchka_> ashledombos: So basically our sites lack instrumentation which makes them hard to manage.
17:34:48 <ashledombos> well, I use lot of command line tools, but I'm more generalist
17:34:57 <klebedeff> #action ashledombos sends klebedeff description of the position sysadmin, together with itchka_ they decide about the call
17:35:43 <ashledombos> I have a quite solid background, but I know that we need someone really efficient and with enough knowledge of security risks etc
17:36:33 <ashledombos> plus maybe one day we could migrate all our containers and vm to openmandriva, so that we could feed our own dog
17:36:33 <itchka_> This sounds to me like a good training ground for someone who wants to become a sysadmin.
17:36:53 <rugyada> Francisco isn't him sysadmin or such?
17:37:51 <ashledombos> yes, but maybe his projects are already time consuming enough
17:38:04 <rugyada> may be, yes.
17:38:05 <klebedeff> his main job is support, and some of security issues
17:39:29 <itchka_> ashledombos: Has the job been offered on the workshop mailing list?
17:39:46 <ashledombos> well, in the past, it was not very precise
17:39:57 <ashledombos> more something like "hey, who want to join?"
17:40:22 <itchka_> ashledombus: So a clear definition would help a lot?
17:40:27 <ashledombos> yes
17:41:39 <itchka_> ashledombos: Do you think you need to work with a sysadmin to define the work?
17:41:50 <ashledombos> we may also need someone who can help with more generalistic knowledge in databases management, and several languages development, not very time consuming, but atm only Robert and I are sharing the work (with help of John sometimes)
17:42:32 <klebedeff> job descriptions needed please:)
17:42:44 <ashledombos> yes, I'll send :)
17:43:30 <ashledombos> Last week I told about the need for people who can check translations of website, but I finally managed to link the website to transifex
17:44:03 <itchka_> klebedeff: I'm not sure it's that simple. I think also a program of work is required so that we can really see what skills are required.
17:44:49 <ashledombos> It's not finished, not all strings are included yet, but now people can translate in Transifex and translations are automatically imported
17:45:10 <ashledombos> I realized that lot of people make translations there
17:45:14 <klebedeff> preliminary vision would be enough to make a call, if I get Raph right
17:45:40 <klebedeff> ashledombos: that is a gret thing to do - and many thanks for this!
17:45:47 <itchka_> For example once proper instrumentation and scripts are provided the skill level required may be much more moderate.
17:48:06 <ashledombos> I don't know if there is an english sentence for it, but I'm at the same place at the oven and at the mill
17:48:17 <ashledombos> so I'd prefer to focus on one place
17:50:03 <itchka_> ashledombos: Can't think of an equivalent at the moment I guess we might say that we are "between the devil and the deep blue sea" but I understand your meaning:)
17:50:38 <ashledombos> :)
17:51:19 <ashledombos> For informations we intend to rework completely the websites as a gift coming with new release
17:52:42 <klebedeff> what exactly is planned?
17:52:42 <ashledombos> so it's at the same time a work under the hood, and related to all visible parts of webservices too
17:53:25 <ashledombos> reducing the number of engines we manage, having a single sign on
17:53:34 <ashledombos> having a more beautiful environment
17:53:44 <klebedeff> single sign in would be marvelous:)
17:54:06 <klebedeff> regarding environment we have a specialist here:) is she taking part?
17:54:12 <ashledombos> rugyada already worked on some ideas
17:54:20 <ashledombos> of course
17:54:47 <klebedeff> that is exactly why I am asking, she has this very nice design template, what do you think of it?
17:55:42 <ashledombos> I like the two of them, we need to take advantage of modern html5 and have something clean and neat at the same time
17:56:02 <klebedeff> rugyada: are you still around?
17:56:20 <rugyada> oh, the second is http://voulevouz.is-great.org/landing02/
17:56:25 <ashledombos> under the hood I'm working on a translation engine better than the one we have until now
17:56:27 <rugyada> is html page
17:56:30 <klebedeff> would wordpress (since that is what it is) be combinable with all the features you need/want to have? ashledombos
17:56:44 <rugyada> yes I'm around but soon I have to leave
17:57:17 <rugyada> around... now :) or some minutes.
17:57:26 <klebedeff> OMG, I love this second one even more than first!
17:57:50 <klebedeff> but first one is also good...
17:58:05 <ashledombos> for now we are working on several engines that would fit exaclty  our needs (not only for blog, but every thing)
17:58:06 <rugyada> the second is just for as a landing page. the WP theme is much more btw.
17:58:20 <klebedeff> ashledombos: how you see the process? I mean, how to choose, basing on what?
17:58:59 <ashledombos> Based on all our needs, this mean we'll have to make some kind of survey
17:59:12 <rugyada> always please keep in mind that they're just experiments ;-)
17:59:34 <klebedeff> wdyt of attracting professional testers for usability/user-friendliness at some stage?
17:59:36 <ashledombos> for knowing how people would feel more easily involved
17:59:48 <ashledombos> sure
17:59:48 <klebedeff> rugyada: those are reaaly good ones;)
18:00:08 <rugyada> thanks :D
18:00:25 <ashledombos> we have now a quite solid enough experience of what works, and what is a problem
18:00:34 <klebedeff> I would take on me to find them, what do you think, when is the time? I mean, when things are yet raw - to change easily if necessary, but already in shape, ie to have something to test
18:00:59 <ashledombos> just a minute:
18:01:05 <klebedeff> not sure that I got your last phrase:( ashledombos
18:02:00 <ashledombos> here is what I mean: there are some informations 80% of people want to find immediately
18:03:05 <ashledombos> generally they want to find in very few clicks, even zero, how to download, if it's a living or rather dead project, and what is specific to the distro
18:04:07 <rugyada> and here is why we need the distro description :)
18:04:18 <klebedeff> true:)
18:04:21 <ashledombos> yes, that's what I was about to write
18:04:30 <rugyada> right in the very first page one is going to open.
18:05:04 <klebedeff> ashledombos:  why I am suggesting external help here - because we see this every day and fresh eye could see something, what we do not notice anymore
18:05:55 <ashledombos> sure, but what we would need then, would be more some kind of advices about the general ergonomy
18:06:01 <klebedeff> just a quick "run-through" once we have the shape which we consider "almost there"
18:06:11 <klebedeff> sure
18:06:19 <klebedeff> that is the purpose
18:07:01 <ashledombos> for the inside part, I mean contributors etc, we need things to be more simple
18:07:08 <klebedeff> can you please note, to tell me a bit in advance, when we approach this stage?
18:07:28 <ashledombos> well, that depends on the GA
18:07:49 <klebedeff> ? how?
18:08:30 <ashledombos> if we try to have all working for GA day, if we have an idea of it we could make a kind of retro-planning
18:08:47 <klebedeff> ohh, but GA is coming in some days
18:09:03 <rugyada> I'll have to go in few minutes, but I let the chat open so to read the log.
18:09:14 <klebedeff> probably sites refurbishment to target for Beta at least?
18:09:40 <klebedeff> thanks that you managed it to be here:) rugyada
18:09:46 <ashledombos> in some days?
18:09:50 <rugyada> see you later
18:09:59 <ashledombos> you mean few days?
18:10:29 <klebedeff> yes ashledombos
18:10:43 <ashledombos> oh
18:10:47 <klebedeff> see you rugyada :)
18:10:49 <ashledombos> I did not mean general assemblee
18:10:55 <ashledombos> but general availability
18:11:02 <ashledombos> of OM Lx 3
18:11:05 <klebedeff> ah, you mean release:) OK:)
18:11:22 <ashledombos> yes
18:11:32 <ashledombos> few days is way too short
18:11:55 <itchka_> ashledombos: I don't think beta will be too soon. There are issues with the abi's of gcc and clang. Plus we have to do all sorts to get some KDE apps going as not all of them are ported. I don't think we will see a beta for a while yet.
18:12:19 <ashledombos> ok,
18:12:40 <ashledombos> then we have time for the external look, that let us time for the work under the hood
18:13:56 <itchka_> ashledombus: I hope that we can make this agenda item a regular feature so that we can review progress and if things are difficult try and get some more resources at least temporaily.
18:14:10 <ashledombos> Xu_R: is not there to talk about, but he's also working a lot on his side
18:14:29 <klebedeff> ashledombos: I think you would let us know what is happening:), but just in case - when should I remind you/ask you about the stage, keeping in mind external testers?
18:15:14 <ashledombos> klebedeff: is it possible, even without testers, to have general advices, mockup, suggestions based on experience if you know specialists?
18:15:56 <klebedeff> ashledombos:  i see your point, true, we could use that in advance
18:16:02 <klebedeff> let me approach people and tell you
18:16:10 <ashledombos> and we need to work on what image we want to carry, it's important
18:16:37 <ashledombos> are we "different", are we "fun", "serious", "stable", etc
18:16:40 <ashledombos> I mean
18:17:08 <klebedeff> also true
18:17:47 <itchka_> ashledombus; An important point.
18:18:07 <ashledombos> https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/ and https://taiga.io/ has the same purpose, but you see that the image is not the same
18:18:29 <itchka_> We really need to look at the wording of our siste.
18:18:44 <ashledombos> one is more corporate
18:18:59 <ashledombos> other is more "rock'n roll"
18:20:39 <ashledombos> it doesn't mean jira is not for independant underground group, neither taiga is not suitable for corporation, but they emphasize on something
18:21:33 <klebedeff> is there a pad or somewhere else a list, of what is needed for website? project?
18:21:56 <ashledombos> not yet, project may be a good place
18:22:33 <klebedeff> that would help, to have all tasks in one place and see progress as well
18:24:18 <ashledombos> btw do you understand what i mean about our identity?
18:25:01 <klebedeff> i think understanding that "motive" which you speak of will be much easier once we have a definition
18:25:01 <ashledombos> for example you can get immediately the identity of https://elementary.io/
18:25:09 <itchka_> I think we need to distill these discussions down to some bullet points so we can properly identify the decisions and actions that need to be take.
18:25:51 <klebedeff> that is exactly why I was asking if project exists, yes:)
18:25:59 <klebedeff> not to lose the tails
18:26:30 <ashledombos> I'd like someone to manage this, do you think joao could?
18:27:00 <ashledombos> i mean, making a good work on this is time consuming, if no one can, I'll do
18:27:20 <klebedeff> Joao sounds like a perfect person for this
18:27:29 <ashledombos> but as i have a lot of work also on the technical field, additional help on overall project management would be a plus
18:27:43 <klebedeff> you mean making the project and doing follow up etc?
18:27:57 <klebedeff> let's suggest him
18:28:22 <ashledombos> yes, i know that he wanted already to suggest discussion about what we are, talking about free software and open source
18:28:28 <ashledombos> this is also a part of it
18:28:48 <klebedeff> yes
18:28:51 <klebedeff> I will email him
18:29:07 <ashledombos> this way we could avoid dispersion
18:29:19 <klebedeff> #action klebedeff talks to Joao about taking over the project management for new website/identity
18:29:21 <ashledombos> pads here, project here etc
18:30:01 <klebedeff> yep
18:30:31 <ashledombos> If he accepts, that would be awesome, i would help him as much as i can
18:31:15 <klebedeff> I will quote this:)
18:31:34 * ashledombos remembers how he managed the name and logo
18:31:54 <klebedeff> oh yes:) he knows about such things
18:33:25 <ashledombos> oh
18:33:52 <ashledombos> btw that would also imply some maybe harder discussions
18:33:56 <ashledombos> but important
18:34:41 <ashledombos> we have too many channels
18:35:31 <ashledombos> I mean, we will have to discuss about a way to have more commitment of the community
18:35:34 <klebedeff> дшлу цршср_ шкс_
18:35:40 <klebedeff> like which? irc?
18:36:03 <ashledombos> well, I don't tell that we'll have to choose this over this
18:36:40 <klebedeff> I am not sure which channels you mean
18:36:40 <ashledombos> i give you an example
18:37:21 <ashledombos> tpg already started the discussion telling that it would be interesting to have all inside project
18:37:34 <ashledombos> qa/blog/forums etc
18:38:12 <ashledombos> while I'm not comfortable with this tool, I however think that we need to gather things in much less places
18:38:25 <ashledombos> we spent a long part of a night discussing
18:38:47 <klebedeff> oh I see
18:38:58 <klebedeff> that would be indeed very helpful
18:39:00 <ashledombos> the idea on which we more or less agree
18:39:15 <ashledombos> was that a great idea would be to have three "domains"
18:39:22 <ashledombos> one for development
18:39:36 <ashledombos> one for community
18:39:55 <ashledombos> and an official portal
18:40:21 <ashledombos> irc is not really to be taken in account as it's not really a webservice
18:40:26 <klebedeff> what would be in development domain? abf anyway is separate
18:40:56 <ashledombos> yes, but robert is working on linking project with kahinah, itself linked to abf
18:41:31 <ashledombos> he's at the same time studying alternative to project, as it has several issues
18:41:51 <ashledombos> another example
18:41:55 <itchka_> I have also done the groundwork in Bugzilla to link that to Kahinah
18:42:07 <ashledombos> yes
18:42:28 <ashledombos> it's not totally my field, so I'll not dive too much into it,
18:42:36 <ashledombos> but talking on community side
18:43:02 <ashledombos> we may have to take decision to link forums and mailing lists
18:43:29 <ashledombos> and maybe ditch tools such as loomio, even though i'd regret it
18:43:41 <itchka_> I'm glad we agree that project need replacing with something more user friendly. I know project managment software and projects scheduling abilities are worse than hopeless.
18:44:14 <ashledombos> not ditch, dump
18:44:51 <itchka_> ashledombus: and we should carry this integration into the operating system itself.
18:45:00 <ashledombos> yes
18:45:40 <ben79> I'm liking where this is going
18:45:55 <ashledombos> what i gloablly mean is that if we agree to make some simplification, we may have to change some of our habits
18:46:12 <ashledombos> if its not counter productive
18:46:21 <ashledombos> and help people join us and feel home
18:47:22 <ashledombos> it's why we need someone like joao to have a good vision of the full picture
18:47:49 <ashledombos> everybody should be included in the discussion, developers, contributers, community etc
18:48:00 <ashledombos> even strangers that just come and give their opinion :)
18:48:18 <klebedeff> sounds like a really good direction to me
18:48:30 <klebedeff> hm:)
18:48:35 <ashledombos> (i forgot admin, because we need to be able to maintain)
18:48:58 <ashledombos> hi ben79 :)
18:49:08 <klebedeff> it would be different from admin we discussed above?
18:49:11 <ben79> Hi
18:49:28 <ashledombos> well, we still need a sysadmin :p
18:50:14 <ashledombos> but this latest discussion goes beyond admin and development
18:50:28 <ashledombos> even if at the end, it will be an admin and dev job
18:52:05 <klebedeff> that is why it makes sense to make a call for admin with general job description:) since it may develop
18:54:07 <ashledombos> yes
18:54:41 <rugyada> back
18:55:04 <ashledombos> i'll make the job offer description
18:55:11 <ashledombos> wb rugyada
18:55:25 <klebedeff> thanks ashledombos
18:55:35 <rugyada> did I miss anything important?
18:56:13 <itchka_> This is not really infra shouldn't this be discussed at the GA?
18:57:17 <klebedeff> rugyada: the talk about minimizing amount of channels was quite important
18:57:21 <klebedeff> have a look
18:57:29 <rugyada> reading the log
18:57:56 <klebedeff> itchka_: it looks like having so many subpoints.. all of them will be simply not ready for GA
18:58:16 <klebedeff> I mean, if we bring to GA, how exactly would the topic sound, to be constructive?
18:58:31 <ashledombos> well it's ready when it's ready
18:58:57 <ashledombos> but having milestones is motivating :)
18:59:46 <klebedeff> ashledombos: I meant that even topics probably will not be yet worded in time for GA:)
18:59:53 <ashledombos> you mean genral assemblee ?
19:00:47 <klebedeff> yes
19:00:58 <klebedeff> i think Colin meant assembly as well
19:02:09 <ashledombos> Mmh, GA is more a kind of legal stuff, for renewing members, making the association work etc
19:02:28 <ashledombos> we can have this discussion as soon as possible, but when it's ready
19:02:43 <ashledombos> I think joao may need time to word and manage it
19:03:27 <ashledombos> itchka_: wdyt?
19:03:30 <klebedeff> agree
19:03:39 <itchka_> klebedeff: But there is an overall principle which describes what has been discussed and that is integration and this is immensly important at every level. I have said it before and I will say it again Apple have shown everyone the way to do this and any OS that doesn't have this as one of their aims is always going to look inferior.
19:04:18 <ashledombos> itchka_: yes i agree this
19:05:11 <ashledombos> it's why I said we may have to change some of our habits, even though i don't know yet which ones
19:05:27 <itchka_> That is why it is an issue at the GA because everyone who has their interst in OpnMandriva must be made aware of the importance of this issue.
19:05:49 <ashledombos> then we may announce what is going on?
19:06:06 <itchka_> thank you ashledombus for raising it in such a constructive manner.
19:07:26 <klebedeff> well, then we just announce at GA that this is what starts taking place and we welcome ideas/suggestions ?
19:07:58 <ashledombos> ( itchka_ Your compliment goes straight to my heart :)
19:08:29 <ashledombos> klebedeff: +1
19:09:17 <itchka_> I think we should wait a little while for Joao to respond and I really do this that we must present this to the community in such a manner that they see that they can be directly involved in it.
19:09:54 <ashledombos> joao is a community guy, he's the guy for it
19:10:41 <itchka_> klebedeff. We must summarise now I think.
19:11:26 <itchka_> Point 1: There is a need for a sysadmin
19:12:05 <klebedeff> itchka_:  there are 3 actions above, about job description, engaging Joao and involving external testers/support
19:12:06 <itchka_> #action ashledombus will produce a job specification
19:12:29 <klebedeff> those are recorded, no worries
19:12:45 <klebedeff> we need to record now new topic for assembly - that would be on ashledombos
19:13:27 <klebedeff> my feeling is that next steps on the topic can be taken after we have summary/project - wdyt?
19:13:44 <itchka_> klebedeff: Ok
19:14:08 <ashledombos> ok
19:14:54 <itchka_> summary/project I'm not quite understanding what you mean
19:15:06 <klebedeff> #action ashledombos takes new topic to general assembly: informing community of big upcoming infra changes and welcoming their ideas and suggestions
19:15:24 <klebedeff> itchka_:  I mean organized list of needed actions
19:16:58 <klebedeff> what we plan to load on Joao:)
19:17:14 <itchka_> klebedeff: I think a list of general principals that need to be applied to reach the goal is more whats needed. You don't want to get bogged down in detail at this stage.
19:17:21 <rugyada> don't know if already discussed, but for sure development channel and community channel have to communicate, one needs the other and vice versa. No way if they work each one on its own. synergy is a must have.
19:17:39 <ashledombos> about the previous action given to me
19:17:48 <itchka_> It's the principles that matter as they give people direction.
19:17:52 <ashledombos> i have a concern
19:18:22 <klebedeff> itchka_:  do you mean the wording for assembly? sorry, I am missing something obviously
19:18:30 <ashledombos> I'm afraid that people may misunderstand the purpose of "ideas and suggestion"
19:18:40 <itchka_> So have I the cats eating my leg so I'm gonna have to feed him. :)
19:19:15 <ashledombos> I don't think it would be good if it start to become a troll where every one start to tell "we need to replace this by this" like it has been the case recently
19:20:08 <klebedeff> +good luck with cat:)))) itchka_
19:20:26 <ashledombos> rugyada: do you get what i mean, i'm not sure of how to explain
19:20:30 <klebedeff> rugyada: fully agree with you
19:20:46 <klebedeff> ashledombos:  i think I know what you mean, true
19:21:20 <klebedeff> then the announcement should be corrected: we announce of plans and that particular votings and questionnaires for community are upcoming - to discuss the details
19:21:45 <ashledombos> yes
19:21:50 <ashledombos> it's better
19:22:03 <ashledombos> maybe we should try to have a time of work with joao?
19:22:17 <klebedeff> this way we will hear out the community fully - but in an orgamized way, avoiding unneeded potential unhappiness and mess
19:22:18 <rugyada> ashledombos:  what you mean - what? sorry I'm trying to follow and at the same time to read the log.. It's pretty hard :)
19:22:20 <ashledombos> here, or by phone/skype
19:22:53 <klebedeff> let's arrange a small meeting with him, he is back in 3 days if I remember right
19:23:04 <klebedeff> i hope rugyada  will join us as well:)
19:23:14 <ashledombos> well, the goal is to involve everybody to have a good vision of the big picture, but to avoid trolls about what tool we need to use
19:23:29 <rugyada> oh yess
19:23:46 <itchka_> ashledombus: That's why the priciples are so important as they give grounds for acceptance and rejection and help you to avoid the issue you just described.
19:23:55 <klebedeff> well, not trolls:) but mess;)
19:24:39 <rugyada> 100% agree, killall troll. I'm a fan of this actually :D
19:24:54 <ashledombos> :D
19:25:01 <klebedeff> :))))))
19:25:19 <rugyada> you know, already :P
19:25:45 <klebedeff> #action klebedeff makes a doodle for ashledombos joao rugyada to have a kick off meeting - planning infra actions and interaction with community
19:28:16 <rugyada> and also fan of "no merit - no voice" (cit. Kate) and "talk is cheap, show me [put here your favorite one] "
19:28:29 <itchka_> Thank you Kate.
19:29:11 <klebedeff> I am being quoted!
19:29:15 <klebedeff> %))))))))
19:29:25 <rugyada> lol, yep
19:29:54 <itchka_> I hope you are all happy if we rush through the rest of the agenda.
19:30:02 <rugyada> you are in good company btw...
19:30:26 <klebedeff> here - yes I am;)
19:30:32 <itchka_> #item5 ABF Videa
19:30:35 <klebedeff> sure let's do itchka_
19:31:10 <klebedeff> Alexey is not here, but we still could make a list of suggestions: what should be covered in this tutorial
19:31:14 <itchka_> Alexey is on holiday at the moment so this subject will be carried over to next weels meeting
19:31:20 <ashledombos> you can use #topic :) and it generates automatically an item
19:31:48 <itchka_> #action ABF Video item to be carried over to next weeks agenda
19:32:11 <itchka_> #item6 Any Other Business
19:32:16 <klebedeff> we will not make suggestions?
19:32:26 <itchka_> hERE'S YOUR CHANCE FOLKS THE FLOOR IS OPEN.
19:32:35 <itchka_> Apols for caps
19:33:41 <klebedeff> I have a question for ashledombos :)
19:33:45 <itchka_> klebedeff: we will not make suggestions? ?
19:34:04 <klebedeff> when we have GA and elections?
19:34:07 <itchka_> Off you go then :)
19:34:17 <klebedeff> [21:31] <klebedeff> Alexey is not here, but we still could make a list of suggestions: what should be covered in this tutorial
19:35:05 <ashledombos> klebedeff: oh, I must have totally misunderstood something, i thought the announce was prepared by joao, according to the last email exchanges :)
19:35:41 <klebedeff> no:) that was all about voting form:)
19:35:59 <klebedeff> I thought that there is some misunderstanding, that's why asking
19:37:07 <itchka_> klebedeff: It's possible that we would be making suggestions for things he has already included and we would have wasted our time. Let's see what he has done and then make suggestions.
19:37:30 <klebedeff> also true itchka_
19:37:55 <klebedeff> ashledombos:  basically, we need just to announce
19:38:03 <klebedeff> for GA only 1 topic
19:38:11 <klebedeff> discussed above announcement
19:38:13 <ashledombos> Ok, basically General assemblee is just a vote, but how do we let people express themselves?
19:38:18 <rugyada> before you spoke about drop loomio? really? or I misunderstood?
19:38:23 <klebedeff> voting form is ready - that's it:)
19:38:45 <ashledombos> rugyada: i don't want it, but we may have to
19:38:50 <ashledombos> i mean
19:39:00 <rugyada> uhm....
19:39:12 <rugyada> alternative?
19:39:18 <ashledombos> if we are going through a way of having less dispersed channels
19:39:34 <ashledombos> but maybe instead we should install our own instance, i don't know yet
19:40:45 <klebedeff> ashledombos:  i am not sure it is right to have people expressing themselves - particularly (only?) at GA. I mean, this could be interpreted this way. We listen to people all time
19:41:25 <klebedeff> one could open a permanent topic in forums - "We listen!"
19:41:34 <klebedeff> or something like that, and promote it at GA
19:41:56 <ashledombos> my opinion is that we should, at least for this time, use loomio
19:42:06 <ashledombos> because we told the GA etc would happen there
19:42:22 <itchka_> I think you are all missing the point of the immensity of what ashledombus has suggested.
19:42:25 <ashledombos> next time, depending on how we make our evolution, we will certainly change the process
19:42:43 <itchka_> The voting system would be part and parcel of the OS
19:42:59 <itchka_> It would be on peoples desktops.
19:43:14 <klebedeff> itchka_: but it is not yet:)
19:43:30 <ashledombos> yes to both
19:43:39 <klebedeff> ashledombos: no objections about loomio as tool for GA
19:43:48 <ashledombos> good
19:43:58 <itchka_> No that is true but it's almost the first channel we should do because it proves we mean what we say.
19:45:15 <ashledombos> OK so I can make the announce tomorrow, i think a whole week end would be good
19:45:20 <klebedeff> so when we will have it?:)
19:45:39 <klebedeff> great, thanks:)
19:45:56 <ashledombos> let's say 29/30/31
19:46:07 <klebedeff> itchka_:  see your point
19:46:37 <klebedeff> it could be even this weekend, we were pre-announcing since long:)
19:46:53 <klebedeff> but whatever:)
19:47:12 <ashledombos> I'm ok for this week end, but is the poll ready?
19:47:39 <klebedeff> yes, Joao just wanted to correct the name, I will need to check if he did
19:47:43 <klebedeff> for Ben
19:49:13 <ashledombos> ok
19:49:23 <klebedeff> i will see now and let you know
19:49:37 <ashledombos> ok, I'll wait then
19:49:40 <klebedeff> and President and bureau is elected by council already, correct?
19:52:16 <klebedeff> *why I keep on thinking that by all members?
19:52:28 <ashledombos> yes
19:52:35 <ashledombos> in fact it's even appointed
19:52:37 <klebedeff> ok
19:52:47 <ashledombos> but we can make a vote if council members want to
19:52:58 <klebedeff> well, president elected i guess
19:53:41 <ashledombos> I think if we could change the name of president it would be interesting
19:54:04 <ashledombos> I still could manage specific stuff and help new president
19:54:13 <klebedeff> you mean to start calling him führer?:)
19:54:22 <klebedeff> ah
19:54:48 <rugyada> klebedeff:  I was thinking the same as you :D
19:54:49 <ashledombos> oh yes, or even camarade yankee führer
19:55:12 <klebedeff> *genius minds think alike.... rugyada
19:55:15 <klebedeff> :)))))
19:55:20 <rugyada> oh yesss
19:55:28 <rugyada> :D
19:55:32 <ashledombos> (girls...)
19:55:44 <rugyada> ashledombos:  hehe
19:55:51 <ashledombos> :p
19:55:58 <klebedeff> yes, we are;))
19:56:18 <rugyada> ashledombos:  you envy, as usual... :))))))
19:57:04 <ashledombos> i think it would be good to have a new president because people don't really understand that until now, it's just a legal/paperwork stuff
19:57:30 <klebedeff> well, only few people Raph
19:57:33 <ashledombos> For most people, president is PR guy
19:57:45 <klebedeff> this could have 2 approaches
19:57:59 <klebedeff> big talk in first council meeting
19:58:10 <klebedeff> or simple closed anonymous vote
19:58:14 <klebedeff> or both
19:59:28 <klebedeff> we have 3 quite different candidates
19:59:35 <ashledombos> I think itchka or tapwag or tpg would make good president, and we would show we are international by not staying french
19:59:49 <klebedeff> and electing each of them would also mean the direction of OMA - PR wise as well
20:00:26 <ashledombos> itchka and tpg are both well known figures of oma and tapwag is maybe less known, but he's a lot in international stuff and he can speak french :)
20:00:32 <klebedeff> but not only PR wise - people are very different
20:00:46 <rugyada> can you please point me the link of candidates?
20:00:46 <klebedeff> tapwag said he is not running
20:00:50 <ashledombos> ah
20:00:51 <ashledombos> ok
20:00:53 <ashledombos> anyway
20:00:58 <klebedeff> for president? rugyada
20:00:59 <ashledombos> it's a discussion for council
20:01:16 <rugyada> yes klebedeff
20:01:28 <klebedeff> for president: TPG, itchka, ashledombos
20:01:37 <rugyada> ok. thanks
20:01:41 <ashledombos> well, it's not me who has written my name :p
20:02:06 <klebedeff> i know:)
20:02:47 <ashledombos> don't think i don't want to be president, or want to quit, I just think a rollover would give a better image
20:02:55 <klebedeff> before having that talk we would need also to clarify for new candidates he range of duties
20:03:37 <klebedeff> good to know your view:) ashledombos
20:03:42 <ashledombos> what is important in fact is council, members of council should be able to manage all related to goverance, not just bureau
20:03:46 <rugyada> ashledombos:  a Q is if you *want* to resign, or you can afford the thing for another cicle.
20:04:21 <ashledombos> no I don't want to resign, and these days, it's not a such huge work
20:04:29 <itchka_> I think ashledombus is correct in his analysis it's an admin post which is why we should be constrituted to have a VP as well as a president cannot be expected to PR and admin.
20:04:29 <ashledombos> the huge work is mainly for treasurer
20:04:34 <klebedeff> so probably best way would be to have a brainstorming,. discussing duties, image consequences of all options etc and then have closed voting - to avoid any emotional influences
20:04:36 <rugyada> oh, maybe you already answered while I was writing.
20:05:11 <rugyada> (sorry for missing)
20:05:19 <ashledombos> no problem rugyada :)
20:06:18 <itchka_> Ok Folks this meeting has been going on for 5 hours now and I think it's time to draw it to a close.
20:06:32 <klebedeff> last action to be recorded
20:06:42 <ashledombos> wow
20:06:43 <klebedeff> lemme do;)))
20:06:59 <itchka_> would anyone like to record any actions for the AOB item.
20:07:34 <klebedeff> #action ashledombos to announce the voting day for council after checking the voting platform (klebedeff )
20:07:50 <itchka_> Thank you Kate.
20:08:07 <ashledombos> AOB you mean the airport in new guinea?
20:08:35 <klebedeff> #idea elections of president: first takes place a big brainstorming during first council meeting, discussing president's duties, PR etc aspects, then closed anonymous voting takes place
20:08:48 <itchka_> That's a real Quatum Leap I just meant Any Other Business :)
20:08:56 <ashledombos> Age of Bronze?
20:08:57 <itchka_> Thanks to everyone for attending and contributing
20:09:20 <rugyada> thanks for the nice meeting.
20:09:24 <klebedeff> +1:)
20:09:34 <itchka_> Next meeting same time next week. Don't forget to send TPG email wishing Happy Birthday
20:09:44 <ashledombos> One another after?
20:09:48 <itchka_> #endmeeting