15:15:46 <bero> #startmeeting
15:15:46 <chwido> Woof! Let's start the meeting. It's Wed Oct  2 15:15:46 2019 UTC. The chair is bero. Information about me at https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Chwido.
15:15:46 <chwido> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:15:46 <chwido> You should add extra chair(s) just in case, with #chair nick.
15:15:46 <chwido> Have a good meeting, don't bark too much!
15:15:49 <bero> #chair itchka
15:15:49 <chwido> Current chairs: bero itchka
15:15:59 <bero> #chair ruru[m]
15:15:59 <chwido> Current chairs: bero itchka ruru[m]
15:16:04 <bero> #chair ben79
15:16:04 <chwido> Current chairs: ben79 bero itchka ruru[m]
15:16:07 <itchka> Doh :)
15:16:18 <itchka> I'm getting old!
15:16:30 <itchka> #item 1
15:16:44 <itchka> #topic OMLx 4.1 alpha release
15:16:58 <itchka> Ok we are up and running.
15:18:05 <fdrt> hello
15:18:11 <itchka> I gather the current alpha iso has cooker repos. I am finalising fixes for the iso builder that will fix this and stop it occuring again when we copy over form cooker.
15:18:20 <itchka> hi fdrt.
15:20:16 <bero> yes -- other than updating to cooker, the current iso looks good to me
15:20:56 <fdrt> as you all know we modified abf to push notifications from cooker to redis about published packages, than it autobuilds to rolling branch
15:20:58 <fdrt> https://github.com/OpenMandrivaSoftware/docker-builder/blob/master/autorolling.py
15:21:09 <fdrt> it's mean that you need to work only with cooker
15:21:29 <itchka> I also noticed that the repo files cause the packages to be downloaded from the mirror list which is probably a bit dodgy as a mirror might be out of date so I have put in changes that will ensure that packages only come from abf-downloads.
15:21:34 <fdrt> all packages, except black list, built for cooker goes to rolling
15:21:43 <fdrt> it the same order as you built it in cooker
15:22:09 <itchka> fdrt; They go to rolling testing yes?
15:22:21 <fdrt> example: you built libusb1 and than rebuilt all packages depdends on it. autorolling.py will rebuild it at the same order
15:22:25 <fdrt> itchka yes
15:22:29 <bero> fdrt: perfect
15:23:38 <itchka> fdrt: Do you know whether HisShadow has found the problem with packages not being removed?
15:24:04 <fdrt> itchka you fill issue for it?
15:24:13 <fdrt> i can't recall such problem
15:24:30 <ben79> Does this process happen immediately or is there a delay so packages are tested a little bit in cooker before going to rolling? Since Rolling is supposed to be for users to use daily.
15:25:05 <itchka> Yes an issue was filed alongside the publish to testing issue. I also spoke to HisShadow directly about it.
15:25:22 <fdrt> this issue https://github.com/OpenMandrivaSoftware/rosa-build/issues/86 ?
15:25:50 <itchka> Yes
15:25:58 <fdrt> ben79 immdeiately as it is built in cooker
15:27:08 <ben79> Um, that seems likely to lead to problems to me. Seems like a delay would be highly desirable.
15:27:29 <itchka> fdrt: I later discovered that this seems to occuring the main repo too..packages published from testing should supercede the current ones in the main repo. The older versions should be removed.
15:27:29 <fdrt> ben79 i think not, because of critical packages are blacklisted
15:28:01 <ruru[m]> ben79:  remember that packages go to /testing repo :)
15:28:22 <bero> I'd prefer having a bit of a delay there too, so we can remove stuff that turns out to be broken in cooker...
15:28:39 <ben79> ruru[m] that is a good point
15:28:40 <bero> but I guess we can still do that by keeping stuff in /testing
15:28:46 <fdrt> bero than just reject package in kaninah
15:33:40 <ben79> That would also present a desirability to be patient with testing in Rolling but there is nothing wrong with that really
15:34:21 <ben79> So I say we see how this works by doing it
15:35:50 <bero> yes, let's try
15:36:00 <itchka> Other changes made to the iso builder are provisions to allow the testing and unsupported repos to be enabled. I'm also looking at the possibility of providing a space separated list of repos to be enabled
15:40:39 <itchka> Once we have an iso with the correct repos I guess we need to start testing..
15:41:22 <ben79> That sounds good especially for our special anniversary Gnome release...
15:42:19 <itchka> Well if AngryPenguin wants to build it he should be able to soon.
15:43:36 <AngryPenguin> itchka yes, it would be good to build a test iso for xfce, gnome etc
15:44:41 <itchka> I hope to publish changes to the iso builder either tonight or tomorrow morning depdnding on test results.
15:45:08 <AngryPenguin> good
15:48:16 <itchka> I'm assuming that there won't be any new artwork for 4.1?
15:48:53 <ruru[m]> itchka:  not this time
15:52:00 <ruru[m]> we may want to add wallpapers for nzver system, I quickly made some already
15:52:05 <ruru[m]> on ben79 's request
15:52:54 <ruru[m]> https://forum.openmandriva.org/t/perhaps-we-need-different-wallpaper-for-znver1-iso-and-systems/3127/3
15:53:01 <ruru[m]> https://www.flickr.com/photos/rugyada/
15:53:12 <ben79> I do think it would be wise that our different versions are distinguished. both znver1 and Rolling, Rock
15:54:48 <ruru[m]> well the package contains all wallpaper and the users can set what they like/need
15:55:48 <ruru[m]> but if there is a way to build different packages that works too
15:55:50 <itchka> Looks ok to me....
15:55:51 <ruru[m]> ofc
15:56:58 <ben79> Ultimately I'd like to see such distinction in the software for each release like in distro-release package or where ever is appropriate.
15:59:50 <ruru[m]> fine with me
16:01:05 <ruru[m]> speaking of small changes we'd prefer to have single click by default instead of double click windoze-style
16:02:13 <ruru[m]> we=Ben and me suggestion
16:03:06 <bero> works for me, we just need to be prepared for bug reports from Windoze converts ("help! everything opens twice!")
16:03:38 <ruru[m]> :P
16:04:28 <ruru[m]> bero: we'll manage that
16:12:41 <itchka> Anything else on Item 1
16:15:57 <itchka> I guess we will move on then
16:15:59 <itchka> #item 2
16:16:02 <itchka> #topic Publishing news policy
16:16:15 <ruru[m]> ok I take this one
16:16:30 <itchka> Off you go :)
16:16:31 <ruru[m]> I will explain, and ben79 and bero will check that everything is like we talked about, and add any comment if needed:
16:17:01 <ruru[m]> We can publish so-called 'Short News' at OM blog. The idea is: when a developer is happy with something done he can write some content in forum or in cooker list and ping Infra/Workshop Team to publish it as a short news
16:17:21 <ruru[m]> it may be a new piece of software, big updates like Plasma major release, alternative desktop ISO, kernel flavours, etc.
16:17:28 <ruru[m]> the author will get credits and link back to original writing.
16:17:56 <ruru[m]> Another important point is in the ideal world OpenMandriva news must come from OpenMandriva website https://www.openmandriva.org/en/news/ first
16:18:13 <ruru[m]> originate there and only after shared through social medias and the likes
16:18:30 <ruru[m]> that's also in order to appear more like an organized distro, all working together in synchro
16:18:48 <ruru[m]> as it may sound weird -at least- that I must learn from external sites what's going on in OM..
16:19:12 <ruru[m]> On this regard, please keep in mind that speaking out there on behalf of OMA without any agreement or discussion on the content is not welcomed
16:19:31 <ruru[m]> ofc feel free to speak on your own name if you wish, but "WE" without agreement is a no-no.
16:19:47 <ruru[m]> we have a PR department taking care of the job and also doing the boring tasks
16:19:50 <ruru[m]> :)
16:20:05 <ruru[m]> we discuss about what to share when and how in perfect agreement so please trust us
16:20:20 <ruru[m]> and feel free to contact us for any help you may need.
16:20:39 <ruru[m]> thank you for understanding
16:20:51 <itchka> Sounds like a good idea..Which brings up something that I shoulkd hhave mentioned under the previous topic. Most of you are probably aware that _TPG has produced a working clang compiled kernel. I wonder whether this would be an interesting thing to put on the 4.1 iso either as an alternate (probably best) or as the main kernel.
16:23:02 <itchka> We used to have the option to have two kernels on the iso so I'm sure that could be reinstated fairly easily
16:24:08 <ruru[m]> the short news are not big news (as the name suggests)
16:24:17 <ruru[m]> but can make some buzz too
16:24:54 <itchka> ruru[m]: I guess you mean more like an RSS feed.
16:25:26 <ruru[m]> no
16:25:35 <ruru[m]> moment
16:26:34 <ruru[m]> this is an example, and it's not what I'd call short news but can be managed the same way
16:26:35 <ruru[m]> https://www.openmandriva.org/en/news/article/switching-to-rpmv4
16:27:19 <ruru[m]> "Note: This is a cooker message, from ....." + link
16:28:27 <ben79> What is meant is that we should publish OM news @ https://www.openmandriva.org/en/news/ first and then crack public relations team distributes news to phoronix, facebook, and twitter, ect. NOT the other way around.
16:28:36 <ruru[m]> "Note: This is a forum post, from ....." + link
16:30:02 <ruru[m]> TPG's news about kernel could be published as short news
16:30:05 <ruru[m]> for example
16:36:10 <itchka> I don't see any problem with this...
16:38:48 <ben79> Am I out of line in thinking that all OM news big and small should be published in https://www.openmandriva.org/en/news/ first?
16:41:35 <rugyada> matrix bridge looks getting some pb, so continuing here
16:42:54 <bero> ben79: I certainly agree with that...
16:43:45 <rugyada> anyone can ping us to publish a short news with his own text
16:44:30 <bero> we (and I certainly include myself there) need to get more active in talking about our news...
16:44:34 <rugyada> big or small they should be published at our website yes
16:44:45 <bero> e.g. we should probably talk about cooker/rolling having the KDE 5.17 beta
16:45:40 <rugyada> yes
16:45:51 <bero> Brokenbuntu makes a press release when they change a pixel in their default background
16:46:01 <AngryPenguin> maybe we can publish news every week/month with what new in OMV?
16:46:15 <rugyada> it's not big news like announcement maybe, still worth mention
16:46:16 <AngryPenguin> for example in this week we update mesa to x, new kernel etc
16:46:29 <bero> would certainly be nice
16:46:30 <rugyada> AngryPenguin:  sure
16:47:01 <rugyada> just write at forum or even pass on to us the content
16:47:27 <rugyada> by email or what you like best
16:48:46 <rugyada> I need ready content to be copy/pasted quickly
16:49:25 <rugyada> that will take just some minutes to do
16:49:51 <ben79> I think a weekly news update is a fine idea, perhaps on Wed. evening after this meeting?
16:51:01 <rugyada> ben79: whenever anyone has anything to share re OM development or else
16:52:13 <ben79> So things should be announced as they happen and if
16:53:03 <rugyada> yes
16:53:39 <ben79> And *maybe* a monthly or bi-weekly summary of news items over that time period.
16:54:11 <rugyada> also
16:54:25 <rugyada> will see as we go :)
16:55:56 <rugyada> it's a kind of update on what's going on
16:57:01 <rugyada> also short news from abf gurus on what they have worked
16:57:12 <rugyada> fit as short news
16:58:34 <rugyada> I like the idea also that guys doing hard work can be credited and acknowledged
16:58:52 <rugyada> that's not always obvious...
16:59:03 <ben79> Yes,
17:01:26 <AngryPenguin> for example look here https://www.pclinuxos.com
17:01:41 <AngryPenguin> they write news with every software update
17:01:50 <rugyada> also call for testing for particular software or whatnot can be published as short news
17:02:13 <AngryPenguin> agree
17:03:11 <rugyada> well maybe for each and every sw update can be redundant AngryPenguin :P
17:03:32 <rugyada> but something in the middle...
17:03:37 <AngryPenguin> ruru[m] I think it's a bit too often here :)
17:03:47 <rugyada> right
17:04:05 <AngryPenguin> but every two week or every month would be good
17:04:34 <rugyada> let's not limit us with timing, imho
17:05:11 <rugyada> when you have anything please just write some bits and we'll do the rest
17:05:28 <AngryPenguin> sure
17:06:21 <rugyada> it can and probably will be fine-tuned, but you all got the point
17:08:19 <rugyada> ofc nvidia drivers will not be a short news but rather a long news :P
17:08:26 <bero> So, let's start it this week?
17:08:36 <bero> Some news we could share:
17:08:42 <rugyada> bero: whenever you have somethng to share
17:08:45 <bero> #share cooker updated to Plasma 5.17 beta
17:08:58 <bero> #share cooker updated to Qt 5.13.1
17:09:26 <bero> #share cooker snapshot that should be close to 4.1-alpha ready for testing
17:09:54 <bero> #share cooker kernel now at 5.3.1, buildable with both clang and gcc
17:10:50 <ben79> #share Wiki article explaining OpenMandriva Release Plan and Repositories: https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/OpenMandriva_Release_Plan_and_Repositories
17:11:18 <bero> #share QtWebKit in cooker switched from last official release to the https://github.com/qtwebkit/qtwebkit branch
17:11:47 <bero> #share inkscape in cooker updated to 1.0-beta
17:12:41 <bero> I think that's the key ones from my side...
17:12:55 <rugyada> ok. just please (everyone) write content in a way that I can merely c/p ;-)
17:13:04 <bero> Unless we want to #share GTK, Windows and MacOS still suck ;)
17:13:18 <rugyada> that's not a news
17:18:05 <rugyada> will need to write some bits of introduction before starting to publish short news but should be done soon
17:21:02 <itchka> I have to go now can someone please take over as chair. Thanks
17:21:25 <itchka> Will post here about the iso builder
17:21:26 <ben79> #share OM clang compiled kernel is now name kernel-release-clang so user can install same version of kernel-release and kernel-release-clang for comparison.
17:22:46 <rugyada> itchka:  ok, see you soon
17:27:07 <rugyada> ben79: I think you mean "... is now named ..."  ?
17:27:13 <rugyada> or ?
17:27:18 <ben79> yes
17:27:28 <rugyada> ok
17:28:37 <ben79> maybe that is not ready to publish yet, there are no published packages there only "tests failed" or "build error" best. https://abf.openmandriva.org/openmandriva/kernel-release-clang/build_lists#?page=1&per_page=25&ownership=everything
17:29:33 <ben79> My styping is an gutter failure.
17:30:20 <rugyada> no pb. guess better TPG should communicate when ready then
17:30:42 <rugyada> uhmmm :P
17:34:27 <AngryPenguin> this kernel should be ready
17:34:43 <AngryPenguin> almost all kernel not pass test
17:34:59 <AngryPenguin> and should be published manually
17:35:09 <AngryPenguin> but better ask _TPG or bero
17:45:45 <ben79> Well OK then:
17:46:19 <ben79> We have some massive, humongous bugs.
17:46:29 <ben79> otter browser does not display home screen correctly
17:46:40 <ben79> https://issues.openmandriva.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2550
17:47:51 <ben79> KeepassX uninstallable due to missing dependency libQtCore.so.4 and libQtGui.so.4  (This one might be fixed but if so that is not reported.)
17:48:07 <ben79> https://issues.openmandriva.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2549
17:49:52 <ben79> dnf obsoleting packages like Gwenview
17:50:10 <ben79> https://issues.openmandriva.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2548
17:50:48 <ben79> This one may be just some dumb output but the fact that it happens in Rock means it *may* upset users.
17:51:27 <ben79> There are more bugs outstanding and activity in bugzilla has tapered off the last few weeks.
17:55:55 <ben79> Open bugs Rock - 17, Rolling - 1, Cooker - 41
17:56:03 <ben79> Which ofc means:
17:57:08 <ben79> #*#@%*&share Based on open bug reports OpenMandriva is great and Ubuntu ain't *&%#.
18:01:03 <AngryPenguin> we should look also on wayland bug
18:02:01 <AngryPenguin> wayland session crashing https://issues.openmandriva.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2536
18:03:16 <ben79> The wayland one confuses me as I've never actually seen wayland work on my hardware.
18:03:31 <AngryPenguin> well, maybe this is not a default session for omv but as far as I know more and more people are starting to switch to wayland or even test it at all
18:03:41 <ben79> Sometimes in past it would crash, but the best it ever did was not crash and be unusable.
18:05:21 <AngryPenguin> build mesa with GCC (as _TPG suggest) not fix this crash :/
18:05:32 <ben79> Getting wayland to work is probably going to be a matter of focus and getting more than one dev to work on it.
18:06:43 <AngryPenguin> bero any idea? :)
18:08:17 <AngryPenguin> anyway I noticed something strange
18:08:43 <AngryPenguin> when I have i686 repo enable (for steam)
18:09:10 <AngryPenguin> with every update system force me to replace x86_64 package with i686
18:09:19 <AngryPenguin> at lest few of it...
18:27:48 <bero> back, was walking dogs...
18:27:57 <bero> by any chance, are those packages noarch packages?
18:28:14 <bero> In that case, doesn't really matter, but you'll get the "update" to whatever finished building later...
18:28:20 <bero> which usually will be i686 because i686 is slower
18:28:35 <bero> we should probably fix handling of noarch packages at some point...
18:28:49 <bero> haven't tried to start wayland in ages... Let me try
18:30:04 <zlypingwin[m]> bero yes, noarch
18:30:53 <bero> starting wayland gives me "kwin_wayland exited with error code 11" without further explanations
18:32:06 <zlypingwin[m]> Just like before?
18:38:05 <AngryPenguin> bero before we see hard crash, https://issues.openmandriva.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2536
18:38:51 <AngryPenguin> if I remember correctly, you also had this problem too
19:08:58 <ben79> Maybe at some point we #   endmeeting
19:11:23 <AngryPenguin> yup
19:21:09 <ben79> #endmeeting