15:19:16 <ashledombos> #startmeeting Council Meeting M20130912 http://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/OpenMandriva:Council/M20130912
15:19:16 <chwido> Meeting started Thu Sep 12 15:19:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is ashledombos. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.openmandriva.org/om/en/MeetBot.
15:19:16 <chwido> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:19:27 <ashledombos> Let's go
15:19:39 <klebedeff__> (and when release is ready, we come back to the story of making council more efficient organ...)
15:19:49 <ashledombos> #topic Administrative
15:20:07 <ashledombos> So summary of the last actions done
15:20:39 <ashledombos> i'd say the most visible is the creation of om-workshop
15:20:53 <ashledombos> and the work of joao around user survey
15:21:30 <ashledombos> this point is mainly informative
15:21:43 <ashledombos> do you see other points to highlight?
15:22:01 <ashledombos> /s/points/facts
15:22:11 <klebedeff__> well, if not about "done"
15:22:21 <klebedeff__> then there is a point to be announced separately I think
15:22:45 <klebedeff__> 18th September is the deadline for discussion of the ML (and general moderation ) rules in forum
15:22:59 <ashledombos> yes
15:23:01 <klebedeff__> http://forums.openmandriva.org/discussion/313/webservices-rules
15:23:02 <jclv> Oh yes you're right
15:23:15 <klebedeff__> so after that they will be considered simply adopted
15:23:31 <klebedeff__> (since council has read them - even a bit too long;)
15:23:40 <klebedeff__> now they are for final approval of people
15:23:43 <klebedeff__> and we are set
15:23:49 <jclv> So I have to edit the first post of that thread
15:24:07 <ashledombos> the most important is the first part
15:24:13 <ashledombos> which is related to law etc
15:24:22 <ashledombos> second part is more specific to forums
15:25:05 <jclv> I'd like to add that the rules are not definitely fixed and can always be improved by he community
15:25:18 <jclv> s/he/the
15:25:25 <klebedeff__> but they apply to all OMA media, I think it is specified inside the rules
15:25:40 <jclv> Of course
15:25:45 <ashledombos> and we did not agree on what to do when someone do not respect them
15:25:54 <ashledombos> yes, but there are some difference
15:26:03 <ashledombos> for example, there is no image management in ml
15:26:38 <ashledombos> but it can be modified, depending on the medium
15:27:05 <klebedeff__> it si a good point, shall we talk about moderators now?
15:27:13 <jclv> The discussion in the forum can specify that sort of things
15:27:21 <ashledombos> jclv: yes
15:27:42 <ashledombos> klebedeff__: sure
15:27:51 <jclv> ok
15:28:25 <klebedeff__> there was a suggestion for the teams to have 2 moderators each
15:28:35 <klebedeff__> - for their own MLs
15:28:49 <klebedeff__> + we need 2 moderators minimum for forum
15:29:04 <klebedeff__> do we need any more?
15:29:12 <ashledombos> i don't think so
15:29:22 <ashledombos> do we want anonymous moderators?
15:29:25 <Wayne_Sallee> We have moderators for the forum, but we need some moderators that are active on the forum.
15:29:34 <jclv> MLs: each list has its managers who are, de facto, moderators, no?
15:29:53 <klebedeff__> We already had a number of issues with moderation, so probably best if moderators are anonymous
15:30:05 <Wayne_Sallee> I just checked and I see more spam. I removed alot of spammers several days ago, but it would be good to have moderators too that are acive..
15:30:20 <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: yes
15:30:21 <klebedeff__> jclv this has to be clear to people themselves, now mainly they just do it
15:30:36 <Wayne_Sallee> Why anonymous moderators?
15:30:55 <ashledombos> jclv: they should, but we can see that most ml are not really moderated
15:31:00 <klebedeff__> I mean, when a person not just does it - but knows that he is mderator actually, it is just more clear, first of all for him/herself
15:31:26 <Wayne_Sallee> Also the user servery mentioned a few minutes ago is broken and has been broken for some time. http://webanketa.com/forms/6mskgc1m5ww30s3568r62cr/
15:31:38 <klebedeff__> We could send and equal email to all MLs, asking to please email to council, who would kindly volunteer to be moderators
15:31:55 <klebedeff__> for general ML - I guess that should be council members (as well as fo forum?)
15:32:05 <jclv> anonymous modos: The experience was atempted in French mdv forum and was discontinued
15:33:21 <ashledombos> klebedeff__: not necessarily
15:33:33 <ashledombos> i guess he should only be a member
15:33:42 <klebedeff__> so you suggest to seek for them in general ML?
15:33:59 <ashledombos> or in om-members ?
15:34:39 <klebedeff__> i think we could copy email to both MLs, specifying, that candidates have to be members
15:35:08 <ashledombos> ok
15:35:23 <ashledombos> who do this?
15:35:48 <jclv> klebedeff__: Or old well known person if we have not enough voluntaries
15:36:05 <klebedeff__> I will send a draft of this email later today to council
15:36:27 <ashledombos> #agreed having two moderators by mailing-list and in forum
15:37:03 <ashledombos> #action klebedeff__ will send a draft of email asking for moderators later today to council
15:37:07 <jclv> 2 modos is a minimum or a maximum?
15:37:19 <ashledombos> #agree moderator has to be member
15:37:26 <jclv> I think : a minimum
15:37:31 <klebedeff__> minimum is 1, 2 regular, can be more as well:)
15:37:32 <Wayne_Sallee> mininum
15:37:48 <ashledombos> but no more than 500 :)
15:37:50 <Wayne_Sallee> minimum :-)
15:37:56 <jclv> ashledombos: ok
15:37:59 <Wayne_Sallee> heheh
15:38:00 <jclv> ;)
15:38:41 <ashledombos> however we'll have to have a real guideling
15:39:15 <ashledombos> for example, peroyvind is still moderated, blackcrack is never
15:39:51 <ashledombos> we don't have neither a duration of the moderation for peroyvind
15:40:44 <klebedeff__> We had a suggestion for that
15:40:58 <klebedeff__> and I think it even was in loomio
15:41:00 <Wayne_Sallee> get rid of blackcrack
15:41:14 * ashledombos has difficulties with the syntax of his own sentence
15:41:45 <klebedeff__> that 1 break of the rules - 1 week or 1 month, 2nd break (or attempt to avoid moderation through new address ) - automatically 6 months, 3d - forever
15:42:22 <jclv> I think it depends on the nature of the break
15:42:34 <ashledombos> yes, that's what i thought
15:42:36 <Wayne_Sallee> true
15:42:47 <jclv> It must be repeated after warning
15:43:03 <Wayne_Sallee> There can be warnings, but wen the person refuses the warnings then baning.
15:43:19 <klebedeff__> I think these guidelines should as short as possible
15:43:26 <klebedeff__> since you can not forecast all cases
15:43:43 <klebedeff__> so there has to be some regulation of course, but leaving space
15:44:31 <ashledombos> yes, but it should be consistent
15:44:52 <ashledombos> ie if two people do the same kind of break, applying the same process
15:44:53 <jclv> I suggest to open a new thread in the forum and propose a "short" guideline to discuss in the same way as the rules themselves
15:44:57 <klebedeff__> what you would add to above?
15:45:38 <klebedeff__> Yep, but we have to put something under discussion there:) some text proposal, even if it would be raw
15:45:43 <jclv> ashledombos: I guess we will never see twice the same case
15:46:12 <jclv> klebedeff__: of yes
15:46:19 <ashledombos> ok
15:46:48 <klebedeff__> I will send the suggestion of text to council later today
15:46:58 <ashledombos> ok for me
15:47:45 <ashledombos> #action klebedeff__ will send the suggestion of text (what happens when someone breaks the rules) to council later today
15:48:15 <ashledombos> If needed we can open a loomio for quick acceptation
15:48:51 <klebedeff__> I think if we make it in forum with deadline for 18th - and open loomio with link to that talk - that could be most efficient
15:49:56 <ashledombos> I agree
15:50:13 <Wayne_Sallee> Yes it is good to let the people discuss it, but we don't want to drag it on.
15:50:39 <Wayne_Sallee> so set a deadline.
15:51:39 <ashledombos> #nick fedya
15:51:49 <fedya> whats up?
15:52:09 <ashledombos> just added your nick in the people attending the meeting, even if you don't talk
15:52:14 <fedya> ah
15:52:18 <ashledombos> which is now unnecessary :)
15:52:30 <ashledombos> as you ware talking before the #startmeeting command
15:53:02 <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: the deadline is already set for 18th in forum
15:53:09 <ashledombos> and should be 3 days more in loomio
15:53:13 <Wayne_Sallee> sounds good
15:53:15 <ashledombos> so let's say 21th
15:53:21 <ashledombos> 22th maybe
15:53:24 <Wayne_Sallee> ok
15:53:33 <ashledombos> 22nd
15:53:47 <ashledombos> ?
15:53:51 <ashledombos> anyway
15:54:31 <ashledombos> next topic?
15:55:00 <jclv> ashledombos: 22d for both: rues and guideline ?
15:55:08 <jclv> rules
15:55:22 <ashledombos> yes, we should have all
15:55:36 <jclv> ok for me
15:55:40 <ashledombos> ten days it's not so bad :)
15:57:42 <ashledombos> #agree open loomio with link to that talk after deadline in forumf (18th) which brings overall deadline to 2013-09-22
15:57:55 <ashledombos> Any other questions?
15:58:31 <klebedeff__> from admin no, I guess
15:58:42 <ashledombos> ok
15:59:12 <ashledombos> #topic TC/Cooker/development
15:59:40 <ashledombos> oh, yes, it seems Vladimir sharshov is no more in Rosa, right?
15:59:57 <klebedeff__> he is part time
16:00:14 <klebedeff__> what is the Q about ABF?
16:00:15 <ashledombos> klebedeff__: do you know if rosa still plans to have a generic name for abf?
16:00:20 <klebedeff__> yes
16:00:26 <klebedeff__> they even had domain confirmed
16:00:38 <klebedeff__> I am making a mark to check out on status of that
16:00:46 <ashledombos> ah? can we communicate on it, or not yet?
16:01:02 <klebedeff__> nono
16:01:06 <klebedeff__> not yet
16:01:11 <ashledombos> ok
16:01:13 <klebedeff__> but it should not be long from now
16:01:30 <ashledombos> great, it will be good for showing that we're not just a sub-rosa
16:02:11 <ashledombos> so great news, we have something testable now :)
16:02:54 <klebedeff__> yes, it is great news:)
16:03:34 <ashledombos> well in fact on TC/dev i have not so much to say, except one stuff
16:03:46 <ashledombos> but which is half a workshop and a cooker topic
16:03:57 <ashledombos> Bero sent an email today
16:04:23 <ashledombos> asking people to say what they prefer between 4 launchers
16:05:04 <ashledombos> this is also a question that should be imho related not only with user wishes (see btw user survey results)
16:05:18 <ashledombos> but also what image we want to have
16:05:52 <ashledombos> for example, i like simple welcome, but if we use it by default, maybe it will be considered as a rosa clone
16:06:34 <ashledombos> maybe we could give an order of preference, coming from council
16:07:13 <ashledombos> (and of course TC make also a decision related to technical preference, if one is more stable than the others etc)
16:07:18 <ashledombos> wdyt?
16:07:21 <klebedeff__> ...based on what people say:)
16:07:35 <Wayne_Sallee> I don't like simple welcome, but we should default to what the majority prefere and make it super easy for people to set it to what they prefer.
16:07:38 <klebedeff__> (council recommendation - based on what people say:)
16:08:06 <jclv> +1
16:08:29 <Wayne_Sallee> I personally like gnome with compiz :-)
16:10:17 <klebedeff__> ashledombos i will have to go in few minutes - you need me for other topics?
16:10:34 <ashledombos> well, not really
16:10:40 <klebedeff__> ok, good:)
16:10:48 <klebedeff__> see you soon then - emails come later
16:10:48 <ashledombos> i think the last topic is more related to new irc stuff
16:11:13 <ashledombos> just do we agree on having om-xxx than openamndriva-xxx name of channels?
16:11:35 <klebedeff__> (yes)
16:11:44 <ashledombos> ok
16:11:45 <jclv> +0 ...
16:12:04 <jclv> (I have no preference)
16:12:17 <ashledombos> #agree having a council recommendation
16:12:41 <ashledombos> #undo
16:12:41 <chwido> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0xa42fc4c>
16:12:54 <ashledombos> #agree having a council recommendation about the launcher
16:13:01 <ashledombos> #topic workshop
16:13:20 <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: any opinion about name of chans?
16:14:22 <Wayne_Sallee> I agree to shortening it to om-xxx
16:14:56 <ashledombos> ok, so let's say we agree on it :)
16:15:03 <Wayne_Sallee> One other option
16:15:05 <Wayne_Sallee> ....
16:15:08 <ashledombos> yes?
16:15:20 <Wayne_Sallee> it could be named xxx-openmandriva
16:15:45 <Wayne_Sallee> this would show the whole name while fixing the long name not fitting problem.
16:16:50 <ashledombos> just for info:
16:16:57 <ashledombos> 18:02:52 - blackcrack : bahh the grate Robert Xu with Maximum experians….. i shit on it !
16:16:57 <ashledombos> 18:03:31 - blackcrack : ..ce
16:16:57 <ashledombos> 18:04:54 - blackcrack : Robert, Boy, i be more as 10 Jears now in the Internet and befor traded Software.. where have you shitting in you diaper .. dammed kiddy
16:16:57 <ashledombos> 18:07:24 - blackcrack : you have no fucked decency Xu|Mobile !!
16:16:57 <ashledombos> 18:14:57 - blackcrack : you whant make me angry, you had make me now angry !!
16:16:57 <ashledombos> 18:16:30 - proyvind : blackcrack: cool down
16:17:26 <ashledombos> from #openmandriva-cooker, just for keeping a log record
16:17:43 <Wayne_Sallee> info not needed.
16:18:10 <Wayne_Sallee> It's obvious that blackcrack needs to be removed.
16:18:36 <ashledombos> no we need at least some evidence
16:18:45 <Wayne_Sallee> But what does that have to do with the current topic?
16:18:56 <ashledombos> it's an aside, sorry
16:19:05 <ashledombos> so back to the topic
16:19:15 <ashledombos> i'm not sure of the best solution
16:19:28 <ashledombos> the advantage of om-xxx is that it's short to write
16:19:45 <Wayne_Sallee> Yes it is shorter to write.
16:19:46 <ashledombos> we can also redirect openmandriva-xxx to the other name
16:20:10 <Wayne_Sallee> I thought the problem was it not fitting in the screen on the left on the chat window.
16:20:27 <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: it is the main problem
16:20:36 <ashledombos> the only real one in fact
16:20:50 <ashledombos> i'm just trying to compare the two solutions
16:20:55 <Wayne_Sallee> ok, so redirect om-xxx to openmandriva-xxx?
16:21:07 <Wayne_Sallee> oops
16:21:13 <ashledombos> no i mean the opposite
16:21:19 <Wayne_Sallee> I ment to xxx-openmandriva
16:21:29 <ashledombos> openmandriva-xxx to om-xxx or xxx-openmandriva
16:22:25 <Wayne_Sallee> How man problems do we have?  (1) short name to write  (2) name not fitting on screen. ?
16:22:35 <ashledombos> advantage of om-xxx, it's easier to sort alphabetically among other channels :p
16:22:49 <ashledombos> Wayne_Sallee: yes
16:22:49 <Wayne_Sallee> got you
16:22:55 <Wayne_Sallee> I see not
16:22:59 <Wayne_Sallee> I see now :-)
16:23:00 <ashledombos> mainly 2, the 1
16:23:07 <Wayne_Sallee> typeo :-)
16:23:20 <jclv> I think a redirection is needed for a while, though
16:23:28 <ashledombos> jclv: sure!
16:23:38 <Wayne_Sallee> so then it would be best to be listed as om-xxx
16:24:07 <Wayne_Sallee> so that it is easyer to sort
16:24:32 <ashledombos> ok
16:24:49 <Wayne_Sallee> and that is what you were saying
16:24:57 <ashledombos> yes :)
16:25:12 <Wayne_Sallee> sounds good.
16:25:35 <ashledombos> should we open loomio for it too?
16:26:05 <ashledombos> i was waiting for this decision before creating a chan for workshop team :)
16:26:57 <Wayne_Sallee> yea it would be good to open the discussion.
16:28:00 <Wayne_Sallee> Oh I see what you were saying
16:28:57 <ashledombos> ok let's do this
16:29:13 <Wayne_Sallee> Even if a channel is created for workshop before making the naming decission, it could always be changed later.
16:29:25 <ashledombos> yes, you're right
16:29:49 <ashledombos> and i need to create a loomio team also for workshop :) I'll do all this
16:29:57 <ashledombos> I guess the meeting is over
16:30:23 <Wayne_Sallee> But nobody here objects to the name shortening to om-xxx
16:30:43 <ashledombos> #action ashledombos will create a loomio workshop team and ask question about shortening channels
16:30:46 <Wayne_Sallee> and nobody...
16:30:59 <ashledombos> yes, but for redirection, we need the help of bero or arisel
16:31:04 <ashledombos> as they are channel op
16:33:00 <ashledombos> nobody...?
16:34:01 <Wayne_Sallee> nobody what?
16:35:14 <jclv> Wayne_Sallee: you said "and nobody..."
16:36:05 <Wayne_Sallee> "and nobody" was to replace the above "But nobody".
16:36:07 <Wayne_Sallee> :-)
16:36:33 <jclv> hum ... ;)
16:36:50 <jclv> Were are very efficient ...
16:36:59 <jclv> Those days
16:37:01 <Wayne_Sallee> It's nothing. :-)
16:37:22 <Wayne_Sallee> Mailing lists discussions are easier to follow than chat. :-)
16:37:39 <jclv> Back to the agenda: What about the mirrors ?
16:40:04 <jclv> ashledombos: ???
16:41:09 <ashledombos> jclv: sorry
16:41:15 <ashledombos> well, the fact is that bero is absent
16:41:46 <ashledombos> but we would really need to have a specific mirror
16:41:50 <ashledombos> i mean
16:41:59 <ashledombos> not specific
16:42:05 <ashledombos> but correctly listed
16:42:13 <ashledombos> and with, if possible, our name
16:42:31 <ashledombos> if i'm correct, anurag was taking this in charge, i'd have liked to ask him the questin
16:42:57 <ashledombos> So for now i can't do anything :)
16:43:10 <ashledombos> about this topic
16:43:40 <jclv> Matthew was asked for that. Did he send any reply?
16:44:13 <ashledombos> he replied more or less how it worked, but not who to contact
16:44:18 <ashledombos> if i'm correct
16:44:37 <ashledombos> so it should be a project fully managed by someone, as it's important
16:45:17 <jclv> For example, were can we put the next beta for now?
16:46:17 <Wayne_Sallee> What about sourcforge?
16:46:32 <ashledombos> i think we can put all in ibiblio
16:46:43 <ashledombos> but the directory is "unity" and not "openmandriva"
16:46:49 <ashledombos> sourceforge?
16:46:57 <ashledombos> can we put mirrors on sourceforge?
16:47:44 <Wayne_Sallee> if we need some place to put the beta until we get the miriors set up.
16:48:34 <jclv> Is "unity" a real problem for the beta?
16:48:40 <ashledombos> in fact we have some mirrors here http://downloads.openmandriva.org/mm/
16:48:42 <Wayne_Sallee> Should not be too hard to find some place so that people can download it.
16:48:52 <ashledombos> all the ok are... ok :)
16:49:15 <ashledombos> the main mirror is ibiblio
16:49:42 <jclv> ashledombos: could we try again ( http://downloads.openmandriva.org/mm/ )?
16:49:58 <jclv> I'm not sure ...
16:50:11 <ashledombos> not sure of what?
16:50:43 <jclv> We can use garnet again for the isos
16:51:23 <jclv> I'm not sure of that
16:51:36 <ashledombos> i'd not prefer i admit
16:51:48 <ashledombos> we could have yet outage of our webservices
16:51:50 <Wayne_Sallee> I'm confused about what part of this is a council matter rather than an infra matter.
16:52:07 <ashledombos> well, the council matter was mostly about identity
16:52:15 <ashledombos> having openmandriva rather than unity
16:52:55 <ashledombos> but you're right, now it's more an infra discussion
16:53:01 <ashledombos> and anurag is not there
16:53:23 <ashledombos> furthermore, i need to leave my office now :)
16:53:26 <ashledombos> it's quite late
16:53:36 <jclv> Ok, let's postpone then
16:53:43 <ashledombos> can i end the meeting?
16:54:02 <Wayne_Sallee> Do we want to dicuss blackcrack?
16:54:11 <Wayne_Sallee> or take it to the ML?
16:54:16 <ashledombos> well, I'd like to but really need to go
16:54:22 <jclv> ML is better ...
16:54:26 <ashledombos> yes
16:54:29 <Wayne_Sallee> yes
16:54:33 <ashledombos> see you soon
16:54:35 <jclv> Bye to all
16:54:36 <ashledombos> #endmeeting